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http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=9953676191

what the hell is this world coming to?

does anyone know what happened to keith/why he is homeless? he was always very nice to me.... and i feel worse than ever now about the times i didn't/couldn't afford to give him money.

how is this funny?

 >:(
Is it just me or does anyone else want to really give some of those involved a really hard slap??
That's utterly disgusting.

i can't  seem to find what you're putting up SE.  Is the link OK?  is it possible to put on here?

It looks like the video has been pulled.

I watched it earlier and agree that the exploitation of Keith was in the worst taste.

SE - he is nice to you because he wants your money. He truly is not a very nice person. BUT having said that, I would never condone any form of abuse against him simply because he is in an unfortunate position in life, regardless of how he came to be in that position.

I dont want to see the video because this type of stuff makes me sick, but i sure would like to know the posters name so that I can voice my opinion to him on facebook.

Antonio Belvedere.
It seems him and his merry bunch of retards were making a Jackass type video.  He has a few posted which I haven't watched but one is entitles 'Gas station fun' so I'm guessing these lot are just morons.

That's messed up. At least they had the good sense to remove it...  ::)

i actually railed about the video on the air for a few minutes this morning. the kid called me within a couple minutes, saying he'd taken it down after realizing how immensely effed up the clip was. that said, he was asking me not to talk about it further 'cause he didn't want it all over national radio. i replied that the only reason there is a subject to discuss nationally is because of his foul choice, so *shrugs*. he accepted that, and we ended the conversation.

not sure if that helps any, but it could help, i dunno, put the period on the sentence for y'all.

deuces.

Never a cricket bat around when you need one.

I'm not violent, but those sons of bitches need a good cut ass.

Good on you, Thaao, for bringing it up.
Psht. Didn't want it on the radio? You wanna know the best way to not have your shit all over the radio?
DON'T ****ING DO IT!

So you don't want to look like a jerk on national radio, but you had no problems being a prick and posting it on facebook?  ::) *shakes head*

Thanks for the name, I'll post a message on his facebook wall to tell him just what proper thinking people think about his BS! Somewhere out there a village is missing an idiot!

 :-* @ thaao

my hero

Ive known the guy since i was like 5 or 6, went to school together since kindergarden. He's not a moron/retard, he may not be the smartest guys u'll meet, but hes not retarded. I havent seen the video but Im assuming it takes place outside of 1 of the bars in town, probably docksiders/the beach.

IF that's the case then this isn't the first time its happenned and it wont be the last. The homeless guys like to perch outside bars in the hopes of getting money / a drink / a cigarette and drunk ppl usually tend to talk shit to them...it happens. Not saying its right or wrong, just saying that this happens on the regular.

It looked like it happened outside the BoB at the bottom of Par-la-Ville.  They throw things at him as he's walking towards them, they ask him about his sex life then they offer him $10 to do pushups.  What they actually wanted to do with have 2 or more 'bums' fight each other for money...real classy people.
I saw at least 3 guys and maybe 2 girls but the video had about 20 names 'tagged' on it so who knows.
Anyway, they weren't slurring their speech and were able to work a cam corder. 
The only plus I can see in this if a pack of morons like that were in the UK, they'd have egged each other on to the extent that they'd have killed him.

Yes SE - we all know you've got a GINOURMOUS CRUSH on Thaoo!!  :D

As for the prick that put the vids on facebook, i'm a great believer in what goes around comes around.  I'm sure he'll get his dues with all the publicity this has generated and he deserves every minute of it.  Tricks like this are what is giving Facebook a bad name - kids beating up kids and then showing them on utube and facebook - not good.   Let's stamp it out the quickest way we know - name and shame.

Joka - the guy could be smart. dumb, retarded or whatever. In my opinon, regardless of whether it happens all the time, which I seriously doubt, what he did was sub-human. If you know him - tell him I think he is a dick.

I understand that you're not taking a position one way or the other... but I will! :-)

IMO, it's a sad commentary on both our society, and the "drunk ppl" who do this kind of thing (since the society is producing them). What level of empathy for the subjects of their 'fun' do these people have? How would they like being treated that way?

I've heard it said that alcohol just releases you to be who you really are. Well, now we know who (and what) these people really are.

Noel

I'm not making it up bro, it's a fact...benevelous if u feel like postin, back me up here  ???

People do it all the time, tell a bum to run around the block and when he gets back they'll have $2 for him. All sorts of dumb shit. Again, Im not even trying to say what was done is right. Just trying to make it known that this isnt a one off thing.

Antonio isn't retarded, what he did was stupid, and the fact that he videotaped it, and then put it on the internet is retarded. But that said Antonio's a good guy, a joka who can be loud and obnoxious at times, but at the end of the day is a good person. You all saw 1 instance of him doing something stupid that doesn't sum up who he is, so dun try n label the guy.

TCloth - if you think he's a 'dick' then go ahead and drop a msg on his wall on facebook.


Nah I agree what they did is stupid and wrong. Just made the emphasis on not saying its right/wrong while defending Antonio. Didnt want ppl to think becuz I back him up, i condone what was done.


No, you really don't. And if you think alcohol releases you to be who you really are, then maybe ur the retard/moron. ;)

Joka - I did post on his anonymous wall - before I responded to you the first time. You will note that I asked for his name so that I could do so. I remained anonymous so as to protect my anonimity here.

I cant understand why the guy's attention is on Keith at kicking out time. Having worked in and outside clubs for many years, I can assure you that as a young man there are much more interesting things to captivate ones attention. Maybe that isnt his thing though. Whatever.

In my experience, the things people do when they are drunk do tend to be a reflection on the type of people they are. Now that's just my experience and nothing scientific. The guy is obviously a pretty sad individual (Im saying all this because he probably has such an ego that he will rush to read this website becaue it plays to his need for attention). Keith is an addict and whilst I dont have too much sympathy for him for chosing to start using drugs way back when, I think that he is probably at a higher level of humanity than some idiot who choses to entertain himself and his brain dead cohorts by demeaning a person who is already struggling with his sense of self. So - if your reading this Antonio - You're a dick!

"So you don't want to look like a jerk on national radio, but you had no problems being a prick and posting it on facebook?   *shakes head*"

LOL - damn I would have loved to have received that call. Whatever the guy is he sure proved himself worthy of being classed a first rank Moron.

As for Keith... if he can do push ups get him up to the Regiment. That'll get him back on track. ;)

haha, and ur a tough guy hoping to pick a fight :D

But yea, I dont rly have a desire to get into an argument over this...but I feel the need to bring this up:

"his need for attention" - Ez now Dr. Phil where'd u reach that conclusion?

"He probably has such an ego" - Again where'd that come from??

I think the fact that he called in and recognized the video was in poor taste and took it down himself shows his ego is not overly inflated...or else perhaps he would have defended his actions...

Also, need for attention? He wouldn't have taken it down if he wanted attention...and why would he have said asked Thaao not to talk about it further 'cause he didn't want it all over national radio

That right there proves he was embaressed and probably ashamed for having put it up in the first place and had had enough of the spotlight...Yea, he wanted to save face and not have everyone talking about the incident...but that's the reaction any person would take...unless they want the attention!!!

-Joka

My two cents –

Everyone does and says stupid things when they are loaded once in a while, wakes up feeling a little guilty, makes the necessary rounds of apologies and goes about their day.  But this guy didn’t feel guilty, he posted a video on the internet because he was proud of himself.  He only called Thaao because he didn’t want the negative attention, and he only took the video down because of the negative attention.  If Thaao was praising him because he found the whole thing hilarious the video would still be there.   I think the bottom line is that this guy needed someone else to tell him that it was a ****http://www.bermudasucks.com/forum/index.php?action=postsettings;sa=censor#;ed up thing to do and that is a piss poor reflection on his character.

Unfortunately I also know the invividual in question, and would respond thus

""his need for attention" - Ez now Dr. Phil where'd u reach that conclusion?"  No Dr. Phil required, as in MY opinion, the statement is not far of the mark.

""He probably has such an ego" - Again where'd that come from??"  read my comments above.

Perhaps I am just old, I never got the chance to see the video, but I find that sort of stuff disgusting, and judging from the rest of the videos, he obviously feels like he needs to prove something.

Off the topic completely, but why can't all the "youf" of today type properly? I have no idea of half the comments on his site.

"Off the topic completely, but why can't all the "youf" of today type properly? I have no idea of half the comments on his site."

If youf talking about Rummy it's just the black in him talking... ;)

Would someone please post the name of this individual, or else PM me with it? I heard something about this recently and I just want to be sure it isn't one of my friends.

'haha, and ur a tough guy hoping to pick a fight' -zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  :yawn:

As for Dr. Phil - no Phd required, just some common sense. Anyone who takes pride in demeaning someone less fortunate than them, then putting it on the net - well, if you cant see that that is out of order, then nothing I can say will enlighten you.

But you're right - he's obviously a swell guy - my bad.

I hope that the person who made this video and the others ' who do it all the time' - never end up with special needs or the challenges that Keith and may others face. He and many others were not always in the situation that they now find themselves!

We are all one small step away from having to walk in these guys shoes.

It is a sad commentary on Bermuda and the fact ' that everyone does it'  outside Docksiders or whereever makes it even worse.

Having 'fun' or a 'laugh' at someone (Like Keith) is truly sad.

Piglet

 :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :o

after noon to everyone

for all of thoses who wasnt listenin to hott 1075 around 530 i apologized to the public and keith i didnt think it was gonna go this big

sorry again:-(

Hey toto - or should that be Scarecrow? I take it you're the one who did the deed. Well we're all entitled to being a major dufus once or twice in our life-times. Appreciate the fact that you've come on here to apologize. Hopefully you've learned your lesson and next time you see someone acting up you'll move everyone along and save someone a little humiliation and grief. Maybe you'll be a little less of a Tin-Man.

SG - you are much kinder than me - Toto - you are an imbecile! THe only reason you have come on here is because you wanted to apologize because you 'didnt think it was gonna go this big'.  So - if it hadnt gone this big you wouldnt have been sorry. You are pathetic. That $10 was an entertainment expense to you, an amount left over in your pocket after a night out with friends. Just consider how much more that $10 was worth to Keith in order for him to sell even more of his dignity to pleasure you and your buffoon entourage. You went home afterwards and posted your pathetic video to boast how clever you were, maybe you had a snack before going to a warm comfortable bed. Keith probably went to feed an addiction then sleep in someone's door way (most likely the post office - his usual spot). I know his circumstances are largely the result of choices he has made in life, but so are yours. IN future choose not to be stupid, if you wanna help the guy - buy him a sandwich!!

You need help. You want to show your sorrow - go and volunteer at the salvation army shelter or make these guys a meal and deliver it to them in the street. Video tape that and put it on facebook. Your acts of kindness will get and warrant more attention than your acts of stupidity.

Im done on this one.

terry cloth

i have gone an fed the poor at the salvation army i did it for 2 years i have gone to alabama for 2 weeks to help handicap kids we didn't go out town that night drinking or nothing it was like a tuesday night we were video taping our selves doing crazy stuff and while doing that we saw keith keith had came to us asking for money now on a regular day keith will come up to u and ask u for money and hell say can i have 5 dollars for sumthin to eat an your like wat u gonna do to earn that 5 dollars hell say  ill give u 20 or 40 push ups that is him i cant help wat  he does for money but i could've helped this hole situation by not posting the video yes and now i no for future reference before we did this video when ever i see keith i gave him 5 dollars or took him to kfc and got him food so its not like this is my first time seein him and this is wat i did me and 2 of the ppl in the video see him on a daily basis and have conversations with him even after the video i gave him bandages the other day and a pair of my crutches becuz sumone beat him up so i am a good person who made 1 STUPID MISTAKE  so there will not be any more videos on my facebook that involves any members of the public besides me and my ppls  wat i want everyone to do on here is go on you tube and find the 10 videos posted up on there of bermudians kicking homeless guys off the bikes interviewing a women and getting her to say dirty things and putting her sons name on blast i want you all too watch them and then tell me how bad mine one is compared to those 10 if i had the links still ion my computer i would put them up on here but i dont  the video is down

Rummies twooooo sents.......................

Yah did'nt video the damage yah deid too the green at Mid Ocean did you? Think eye have sean that "PPL" somewhere before....................

Nah dunt gatt ya knickers hin ah tweest.......all in jest.............. ::) ;D

Toto,

Some free advice which may help you through life. Take it or leave it...your choice....

What you did was very wrong - you should apologize without conditions - don't deflect about what others may or may not have done. Or talk about others posting or other similar videos. Don't make excuses for what YOU did - which is what you are in fact doing.

You or anyone can control what Keith does for money - yet another attempt to blame him for what you did? Tell him here is your money - I don't want you to do press ups in order to get a couple of dollars - you certianly don't need to make a  video and laugh about it and then post it for all to see.

What you did was wrong - plain and simple - no excuses, no blaming anyone else (including Keith), no deflections - time to act with some maturity and responsiblity and be accountable for your ONE MISTAKE.

It doesn't seem like you truly get it - as you are still trying to rationalize what happened....you showed poor judgment and what you did was wrong - unfortunately in life ALL the good you may have done is often wiped out with the last mistake you make!

The way to deal with this is to not try and make excuses for what happened, move forward and take this as one big lesson in life...

Piglet

Just out of curiosity Piglet (I'm a Registered Nurse not a police officer - so I do stand to be corrected here) but isn't this disgusting incident some sort of transgression of the law? a crime?... under the public order act or something? If it is, then surely the video is evidence of the act of the crime being committed?

I'm not sure at all about this but I am sure that if something like this came to light, in the UK or Canada, the newspapers would have a field day with it and there would be calls for these men low-lives to be held to account in a court of law with a call for some form of reparation other than just a feeble "sorry" (which only means "sorry we were caught") - something akin to a fine, community service or both... Certainly it's the victim (not the readers of BermudaSucks) who deserves to hear the apology from toto and his fellow transgressors of common human compassion...

Following along those lines for a moment... would "well everyone else does it" be a valid defense in a court of law if the crime committed was a more recognizable one... such as video-taping a burglary in progress? Would there be more outrage if the perpetrators of the abuse were tourists or ex-pats rather than Bermudian "youf?"

I remember Keith - I had several dealings with him in my professional capacity on Somers admission ward at St Brendan's Hospital and in my personal opinion he is a nice man who is more a "victim" of his circumstances rather than a "conspirator." Nevertheless, no fellow human being should be subject to this type of de-humanising abuse and ritualistic (and I do mean ritualistic) behaviour from anyone...

Alas, it also reflects badly to some extent upon us all (either primarily as parents or even as peers.) What degree of separation is there between the moral lassitude of condoning this behaviour by virtual inaction and then being outraged by the behaviour which was meted out to Iraqui POWs by American soldiers... did those soldiers think it was OK to do what they did because "everyone else was doing it?" Perhaps, they too, grew up as teenagers in a society where filming this human "bear-baiting" was merely considered to be "youf" having its high-spirited fling...

People may say... "Oh this was their one mistake..." yeah, it was the one time they got caught and identified... but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that this behaviour was not the result of some evil inverted epiphany that came to them in a flash - some instantaneous act of insanity brought about by over-indulgence of alcohol, it was planned with malice aforethought, probably rehearsed on several previous occasions prior to this one... this time they thought they would "perfect" the routine and film it - and then splash it on the internet to show how clever they were... They took along a video recorder - to do what? These guys knew what they were doing - it was cold and calculated and a sad reflection on OUR sick modern society - not just Bermuda's...



SevenT

I'm not sure it's illegal. Certainly degrading and malicious. Maybe Keith could sue for damages claiming he didn't consent to being filmed and put on the internet. There certainly are a lot of these types of things going on around the internet but as piglet states just becuase others do it that does not get you off the hook.

Besides as someone else said earlier, when I get out a bar with a few beers in me the last thing I'm up for is filming a strret-person doing anything. Now if there's a few girls who want to go wild... lights, camera, action!  :)

Mabe in the court of public opinion Smokes. It's just another attempt by the younger generation of 'attention'. It's sad that this has come to pass but what can one expect. I guess it boils down to "attention" and this is where we are heading.

Such is the internet. No real communication, verbal or confrontation. Just put it there and see 'reaction'.

The old days were'nt the best but mabe they were. Sorta like pushing that 'button' we discussed sometime ago.

Reality is, pushing it is in your egostistical favour or not worrying about what will really transpire.

The furure holds the key too today, it's how you unlock it................................

The only thing illegal that I saw was the things they threw at him, clearly an assault.  However, to prosecute you need a complainant and Keith got $10 so is highly unlikely to do that.

I'm sure many of you won't agree with me on this but when Keith asked for the guys to buy him 'something to smoke' couldn't he be seen as begging under the law? And therefore guilty of disorderly conduct in public?

Taken from Bda. Laws:
SUMMARY OFFENCES ACT 1926
Disorderly conduct in public street
9 (1) Any person who, in any public street, highway or thoroughfare—
          (a) begs or attempts to obtain alms

Do you think you are missing the big picture here?

Piglet

What did they thow at him? Never having seen this video, I wonder wwhere all draw their conclusions.

As for your comment Drew, that is neither here nor there. In a way it makes you wonder but the offence as you state has to be "found committing". Your not a Police Officer, you have no power of arrest. You would have to make a formal complaint and the summons served.

It's not as easy as it looks. I get your point but there are limitations and laws that govern this .

Next time someone asks you for a dollar for a cup of coffee, rethink your comments. Powers of arrest apply to Police and the PUBLIC............just depends if they are Summary, Indictaable et al.............

my two rums.............................. ;)

I don't think I'm missing the picture Piglet. I find people in Bda. are quick to turn the other way when the law doesn't suit what they are trying to accomplish. As a police officer shouldn't you enforce ALL laws and not just the one's you deem fit?

I have two questions for you or anybody else who can answer: 1) is begging or sleeping in public illegal in Bermuda? 2) did Keith 'beg' in the video?
 :-*

And Rummy, I understand what you are saying - I just wanted to point out that the obvious illegality (if thats what you want to call it) wasn't done by the 'youf' but rather by Keith...well, to me at least. And when you say "next time someone asks you for a dollar for a cup of coffee, rethink your comments" I don't think they will be 'attempting to obtain alms' in such an instance but again, point taken. ;)

Appreciate where your going with this Drew. As for " sleeping in public". No way is this illegal. I sleep, catch a snooze on the bus/ferry/sitting on a park bench.......

As for (2) did'nt see the video but if he did, I have already addressed this and so have others.

Drew....give me five dollars I left my wallet in the office and I just ran out of gas........would a vagrant ask this? They have no transport.......

My two rums.......Karma buddy and thanks for the kick in the ass which we all need once in a while ;)

I saw the video and when it started, they were calling him over and as they did they threw things at him, not sure what they were but it struck me that they were coins or something small anyway.  Being homeless and sleeping as a vagrant is no longer illegal (wandering abroad as it was called).  However, clearly some trespass when they sleep for example in the parks which get locked at night time or on the library patio with a 'No loitering' sign, they are arrestable there too.
Keith did not beg in the video but by them calling him over and speaking to him and asking him to do something, I would argue that if they asked him to do push ups and he asked for $10 to do them, the effectively employed him under contract similar to paying someone to paint your house.  Also, Charles Richardson about 2 years ago got Jinx off a begging charge by successfully arguing that lifestyle had to be proven and that reputation was not applicable as proof.  Not too complicated but I can't be bothered getting into it, basically case law and goes to the scenario someone just mentioned of me bumming $10 'cos I forgot my wallet even though I have funds available just not to hand.  So now to prove a case of begging, statements need to be taken from witnesss and lifestyle has to be proved...nonsense.

Apparently this "Keith" was being used. End of story. As for your last sentence Blah Blah.....Lifestyles has nothing to do with begging. You may percieve that as most are indoctranated into believing it.

The video and begging are two seperate things. Asking for help has nothing to do with begging. Being exploited is..............when you realise the differance the world as you know it will no longer exist..... :)

Just keeping everybody on their toe's! Different views often make you wonder, and I was just trying to get people see it from a different view point. Let's just be glad this whole mess seems to be over...
 ::) 8) :-*

Rummy..trust me, I know what I'm talking about.  My last sentence is a reality, go ask Magistrates court my friend.  When you worked here, not necessary, but you know how case law works (or should); Richardson set a precedent with the Jinx case and now police must cover the extra evidence to prove a charge of begging, END Of STORY.
Some posted the offence of begging earlier, I suggest you read it.  While there is a subtle distinction between asking for help and begging, asking for and obtaining money or alms (anything physical really) is classed as begging, but of course there are mitigating factors.  I can go to a house and ask for $10 as I've run out of petrol and am going to walk to the gas station and fill my can.  I'm a working man with the ability to pay back and the intention of paying back even if I don't say I will.  If the householder gives me the money whether on condition of repayment or not, the offence of begging is technically complete, however, am I going to bet arrested for it if it is done in earshot of a police officer?  I would hope not, hence the need for the lifestyle proof.

I'm not sure what your point about being used is and all I'll say is this; at some times we're all used or are capable of being used.  In Keith's situation, $10 was an acceptable price for him to humiliate himself (although I'm also fairly sure he didn't feel humiliated due to the lifestyle he's lived for many years).  Someone wants me to do something humiliating and offers me a significant sum, I'll probably enter into that verbal contract too.  END Of STORY.

Good day readers of Bermudaucks.com.

Firstly i would like to express my confussion in the logic of this discussion. Many of this forum's contributers have shared there emotions on a video posted on facebook (and tagge to specific ppl on facebook, not for all to see) that belittles Kieth, who is known locally as a vagrant.  Many of u have shown disgust in wake of this incident, but my question to you is, Is this any worse than a site called "BermudaSucks.com" which is belittling my whole country and its inhabitants with just its title?  If not, i suspect that someone will inform me that "not everything in this site is about bermuda sucking." I advise you ppl to take that same approach while lookin into the life of a good friend of mine, Antonio Belvedere.

I would also like to point out the vicious verbal lashing on Antonio by the person known as "terry cloth."  This person appears to be either the Pope, an Arch-Bishop, or just holier than every one else in this forum.  The attitude you have expressed is not unlike the actions for which you are criticising Antonio.  I would like to remind you to think on your asinine decisions before you jump so dramatically down the throat of another.  Obviously you are a hypocrat. I say this because I know that none of us are perfect, therefore you CANNOT tell us that your life has been without error.  I advise you to think before you speak. How many times has your mother told you not to judge? If not her, than someone has mentioned it to u. We have all heard and said this, "dont judge ppl" yet many of us do not practice this. further more Terry Cloth, you, and others have continued to batter Antonio after his apology, instead of accepting it and offering advice on perhaps a different optionon for ways to entertain ones friends.  Does this make you better than Antonio? You seem to believe it does. Fortunately for the world you are mistaken.  I believe that a person who judges a man based on one encounter is an idiot.

Piglet also replied to someone by saying "are you missing the big picture?" i believe EVERYONE who has contributed to this forum is missing the "Big Picture."  Wat is it really? Is it the fact that Antonio and some friends were disrespectful to Kieth?  No, take another step back, zoom out and look again. The picture is FAR bigger. I present to you a portion  of this picture. There is a problem in Bermuda with vagrancy. There is no doubt that Antonio is at fault for making the video, but he has accepted his responsibility and apologized like a man. This quality is very admirable and hard to find these days. But who is to blame for kieth being a vagrant? It must be realized that no such videos would exist without the subject.  It is Kieth's fault that he is in the position he is in.  We as adults should know to make careful decisions as they are life altering.  Kieth must do as Antonio and accept his responsibility not only in his fault for his life, but also his responsibility in society.  Please do not misunderstand me, i want the best for Kieth, I honestly want the best for EVERYONE.  I would like to take this opportunity to propse a possible solution, or inat least a step towards a solution to the issue of vagrancy.  Someone earlier metioned in what appeered to be a joking matter that the Bermuda Regiment should recruit Kieth. I believe that is the way to go, not only for kieth but for vagrants generally.  They should be recruited and trained to be permanent staff. It would provide them with food, shelter, discipline, medical care and restroom facilities.  These are luxuries they have lost due to thier decisions.

Drew,

BlahBlah is right there is specific case law to prove begging in Bermuda. What he says about provng habitual beeging and lifestyle is true - it started with Jinks and was re-affirmed in a case with Sonny. All true.

And a Police Officer does not have to enforce all always all the time - he or she has discretion - clearly without such there wuld be all sorts of issues!

There are many issues ongoing here - the least important being a homeless person asking (begging) for money - the real issues are how he was treated.

Piglet

Christ toto/Antonio you really are pathetic... do you really think you are fooling anyone here by logging on with a false persona and trying to take the heat off yourself? You are not the first drip to try that stunt (remember tigga anyone?) you could at least have tried to write in English if you were trying to convince us you were not one and the same person...

You just compounded your guilt...


SevenT

Whats your point really. You seem to have outed someone. ??? :o High, my name is Terry and I wish I could be your server................

Too fricking right Piglet... I'm gob-smacked that it is being suggested, by people who should know much better, that somehow the victim in this atrocity is culpable for what happened?... is this the attitude that promotes the view that rape victims somehow "asked for it?"

Incredulous attitudes...


SevenT

And the 'pink ties' just sat in the back of the bus................Dahhhhhhhaaaaaaa :dunce:

I've honestly got no idea what this means Rummy - perhaps it might be wise to dispense with the hyperbole when dealing with a serious subject such as this and speak in plain terms...



SevenT

"Someone earlier metioned in what appeered to be a joking matter that the Bermuda Regiment should recruit Kieth. I believe that is the way to go, not only for kieth but for vagrants generally.  They should be recruited and trained to be permanent staff. It would provide them with food, shelter, discipline, medical care and restroom facilities.  These are luxuries they have lost due to thier decisions."

Finally someone gets my sense of humour..... might I also suggest you march your buddy Antonio up there with Keith as well. He could certainly use some valuable life lessons and maybe even a reading & writing course. And on this one.... I'm not joking.

Cush,

Before you make too many statements and judgments about this site - maybe YOU should follow your own suggestion and get all the facts and do some research of the site.

At the end of the day it is admirable that you want to try and defend your friend - but all you are really doing is keeping this story alive - you are giving it the oxygen to keep going. The best thing you could do is stop trying to defend what most right thinking people in Bermuda do not think is defensible.

Only time will change peoples views.

I am sure Keith did not choose to be homeless or have the other issues in is life. By the grace of God we all go and hopefully none of us find ourselves in his situation - through choice or otherwise.

At the end of the day the issue here is about how we treat our fellow humans and how we treat people with special needs - Keith was treated wrongly. It is really that simple.

Issues about homelessness, vagrancy, drug abuse aside - even if someone has all of these things they still deserve to be treated with respect. Keith was not treated with respect.

There are homeless people in every city, town and place on this earth – some have extra challenges such as drug addiction and or mental health issues – they still deserve to be treated with respect.

All the other issues are just excuses and have nothing to do with what happened! When you are wrong you are just wrong!

The picture (big and small) here is simple – treat ALL people with respect and how you would want to be treated.

Piglet

Then you should read the posts. And yes it's serious, it's up too you to fugue out the "hyperbole"......as for plain terms........who said it would be easy......take up the slack and don't throw it in my face...........................here endeth the lesshion.......

What are we/you doing to help Keith? He does not read this site nor have access. This is garbage in my books.............

How many Keiths are there out there in Bermuda? Answer that..then get back.

Tink about it........realy.............

I'm not even going to grace that question with a direct reply... Although I usually greatly enjoy the disarming nature of your humorous replies to overly serious and pompous posts (even when I don't fully understand them myself) - I don't think it is/was very appropriate on this occasion... and that is just my opinion so feel free to ignore it... you do not need to attempt to justify your faux-pas by questioning (as Piglet so eloquently and appositely emoted just now) the very basic need for people to try to treat each other with a modicum of respect...



SevenT

steve t  i have a life thank you i dont spend my time on here nore have i ever hurd of this bs site before this if u ask me this is the same as my video its degrading to ppl like my video was degrading keith i have not made a new name up to try and back myself up u follow those instructions that cushi had put in and u will see if u no who i am that that is not me but no one really nos me on here and i dont see how this is still goin on the video was down before hott 1075 teyo or how ever u spell his name started talking about it so in other words move on to other topics this site is just not about my video so find another topic to play wit im getting tired of getting new comments put on here its really irritating im trying to be mature about the hole situation but its obvious im the only one ppl are telling me to grow up i grew up i went on national radio and apologized to any one that was hurt which is obvious its every one here if this things goes on to be 6 pages of nasty things i will not stop doing wat i do and i no all of u are staying tuned to my facebook for more videos so u can have stuff to talk about so like i said if it goes to bein 6 pages long i will make more videos and post them on more sites i dont want to do that but hey i might as well keep doin wat i was doin becuz its plain to see yall aint gonna stop so y should i **** it my name is out there now if any one wants free advertising on facebook let me i have all of bermuda looking at me now and im willing to advertise for yah business so holla

dont forget you all are not saints you all have ****ed up in life it was never out there teyo degrades ppl on national radio wat about all that publicity with him after he wanted to prank call sumone after the fire at belco ppl prank call when your like 11 or 12 so right stop commenting and move on with life i will hold strong to my word 6 pages = more movies if it doesnt reach that no movies its in writing so if more movies get made blame yah self

ps: im permanently unfit for regiment ive a heart attack and 7 surgeries  on my knee so u wont see me there but if all that didnt happen i would be there and not care cuz im open to new things

Toto,

People are only saying on here what the rest of Bermuda is saying!

You still don't seem to get it - everyone’s fault but yours?

It is going to take time for this to end - not when you decide - maybe you should have thought about that before?

If you weren't wrong and everyone else is wrong - then move on - forget about this site, forget about what everyone is saying - you are right they are wrong. If that works for you!

The only positive thing that could come out of this is that you have the maturity to reflect on what you did and move forward – so far based on your replies you have a long way to go.

As you said earlier -i have a life thank you i dont spend my time on here  – I hope you can have a life that doesn’t involve taking advantage of persons less fortunate than you.

Piglet

i love the way these guys embarrassed keith .He embarrasses us as a nation in front of tourists all the time ;about time somebody gets him back .Keep up the good work fellas :D

Ok...we all have medical problems...............Whats your point really? Besides wanting a conversation thats going nowhere,,,,,really tink about it......Get back on topic just like I should be doing ....but then again.............. El Rummo.... :)

i am overwhelmed with tears of joy and happiness knowing that  keith was degraded  and used in such a manner lol good for him im happy thats all that matters :'( :D

This beggars belief (s'cuse pun) are you honestly asking us to feel sorry for you now? Hehehe... you really are a piece of work aren't you toto... I thought Terrycloth was going slightly overboard originally - but now I am coming around to his point of view... So you are getting tired of the comments and they are beginning to irritate you... Ah Diddums! Being an adult means (in part) taking responsibility for your actions and any subsequent outcomes of them... a hard lesson to learn but most of us on here had to go through it.


Ah, I spy a recidivist (look it up in the dictionary) with size 12 feet! So if the nasty people don't stop saying hurtful things about poor little toto he'll go out and do more of the same? What an adult response! Prepare to dig out the camera and the Gosling's again because I don't think you can decide the level of your own punishment - even if it is just a page-count.


Just how old are you toto? Do you have even the slightest contact with reality like the rest of us? toto... take a deep breath, calm down, and think for a few minutes... Can't you see you are in the wrong? Do you think it is just me that thinks this way? Wouldn't it be more of a face-saving exercise for yourself to just sit back and accept that your actions were wrong? Sit back and watch this debate ramble on for another 20 pages (or whatever) and consider that, compared to what some might want to do to you, reading this stuff (however tired and irritating it gets) is a really mild form of punishment.

I suspect that, contrary to popular opinion and despite your bravado and bluster, there is a shred of decency somewhere inside you and that deep down you know you royally f*cked-up on this one... we've all been there... you now have to eat crow-pie... It is understandable that you don't like being put under the spotlight like this but like the old saying goes... "if you can't do the time - don't do the crime." So, this time, it seems the only crime was the one committed against humanity... phew, you were lucky. Now get used to endlessly and unconditionally saying "sorry", watch the page-refresh-rate slowly diminish and learn your lesson... Most importantly, don't do it (or anything like it) again!


That's even more reason not to go running around, half-cut, with your mates on a Friday night, filming people who find themselves in circumstances less fortunate than yourself... you really don't need another BermudaSucks induced heart attack... we might come around to your hospital bed with a camera and ask you to do 20 press-ups before we let the nurse give you your heart medication!



SevenT

im 21 and how much times do i have to say I NO IM IN THE WRONG !!!!!!!! if i didnt i wouldnt have apologized its a saturday night im goin to do wat normal ppl do an that is enjoy life besides get calyces on my ass by sittin on this site  ciao for now

P ****IN S . FOR THE LAST TIME I DONT DRINKKKKKKKKKK U ON HERE 24 7 AND U AINT READIN THE SHIT RIGHT PAY ATTENTION

Ok this is the point. . . Antonio knows what he did was wrong, yes. And what MORE do you guys want him to do?? Grow up? Yeah okay well it won't show on HERE lol. Everyone coming on here talking about it isn't going to CHANGE anything. Yeah I understand this is for opinions but to everyone directing things to Antonio. . .I think he gets it! lol What ELSE do you want him to do? lol

But otherwise, I do disagree with what he did and its over. . . . .*shrugs*

So poor toto went and got all his little friends to support him against all us bad guys! Cush - you are as much an ass as he is - the pope, archbishop? Is that all you can come up with? Am I hollier than anyone? Well - maybe Im hollier than toto and all his friends 'cause I have never degraded a human being like that. Have I done stupid things? Hell yeah - but I've been taken to task for it and where there has been cause to apologize and I have felt I have been wrong I have apologized without condition - not because I have been caught. There is none so blind as he who WILL NOT see!

While reading this thread this morning I began to see how these young people are basically reflecting the morals and attitude of their Gu'mint (I'll bet these guys are solid qlq supporters!). 

Recently I have been contemplating how the qlq's immoral, unethical, self-serving & very vindictive public shenanigans would play out in our greater society.  Now I know....

Again... another example of how the 'Law of Unintended Consequences' playing out on Sucks.  Better to keep your mouth shut, toto, rather than continuing to put your foot into it by your constant attempts to justify your actions and deflect criticism.  After your first post I thought, at least, you had the balls to apologise... but with your continuing posts, you've now lost my respect as well.  :-\ 8)

i didnt go an get anyone my ppl now how pissed off im gettin with u pathetic bunch of ass holes number 1

number 2 i support ubp all day all u ppl need to get yah shit right and then talk on here wat i would really like to no is how much of yall actually saw the video to be talkin like this on here or are we bein regular bermudians and stickin our hands in to ppls pockets and tryin to dig out info becuz u have no life and nothing else to do but to sit on one the most stupidest web site made o man all this site does is blow shit up it doesnt patch anything up im aloud to come on here and back my shit up there is such thing as freedom of speech and say wat i want when i want so i will stop well you all stop ive tryed to grow up with this hole thing and all u anonymous ppl wanna keep it goin cuz u all like this shit well ill entertain u guys sum more hows that better yet we should meet up and make video comments like a live debate and i can post that on facebook and maybe bermuda sucks will step up there game and get video links and i will post it on here but we wont be able to do that becuz no one wants to be known on here which is why everyone keeps goin and goin yall need to wake up im sure u are all grown ass ppl and have a family to take care of well i dunno about all but sum of u take care of yah family and worry about yah self an yah own mistakes in life i have dealt with mine wats done is done thats that look out for bermudasucks tshirts

Toto,

Not only are you on this 'stupid website' - you are in fact appearing on other Bermudian websites - people have a similar view of your actions and whilst they were prepared to accept 'your mistake' and 'what you call an apology' - most are now seeing this side of you based on your posts.

The comments on this and other sites are no different to what people are saying about you - it's just here you actually get to have an idea of what most people think.......

If you Google your name - you even come up!

What you did was wrong - what you are doing now is pathetic and an obvious sign of your immaturity. All of this including your sad and high school comments (I thought you were 21?) will be here for all to see.

You are really making things worse for yourself - the benefit of the doubt - you may have got from many people is sadly evaporating based on your current postings.

There is only one true asshole in this whole incident and I am sure you and the rest of Bermuda know who that is....... :dunce:....

Piglet

PS I understand that the Paper (RG) will run a piece on this and it seems to have been picked up throughout the Region - good luck with that!... ;)...



 

if any one on here was mature enough they would have stopped talkin shit after i apologized so its obvious im not the only one with a high school mentality your a cop so i hear so u should no a hole lot better then to add fuel to the fire this is the last thing im sayin on here cuz i have no time for bull shitters im throwing a charity event since u all are saints and have never done wrong and like  just givein money to the homeless stay tuned for flyers an other advertisements im getting sponsors together to donate money to charities they will give $10 per person to the salvation army so u saints better be there if u not keep yah comments and thoughts to yah self and im glad to see we as tax payers pay police to sit on this wackest sight and start trouble u a cop u shouldnt be anonymous u have more ppl like u that have yah back

ps dont forget to look out for " PUSH UP FOR A CAUSE "

ROTFLMAO!!!! Tax payers paying Piglets wages!! Hey Piglet - never mind getting a day off - get back to work!! I know - maybe if we speak nice to poor tax paying toto we can get you a raise. Man I heard that nugget everytime i searched some asshole sitting on a wall!! Nothing changes.

And why should we keep our comments to ourself? Why should we or anyone contribute to some 'event' that is more designed to ease your conscience than to help homelessness. Please - you've been exposed - get over it. I'll give my money as always to people that do things for the right reasons. You mock people's right to anonimity but dont forget how you begged like a b**ch for Thao not to make a big deal about your video - I guess anonimity wouldnt have been so bad there would it.

no one begged like a bitch to thao get yah shit straight i aint beggin for none of u pricks to believe anything i say the point has bin brought across so much times out of my mouth that i no i was wrong but hey bermudasucks.com sucks bermudians make me laugh how could u say u will give money to things for the right reasons if all of u on here dont wanna talk about the positive things in bermuda all u wanna do is talk about the bad theres alot of good thats bin done in bermuda that none of u pricks would appreciate soo stop fronting and actin like u give to the community when u no full well u dont if u callin comein on this shit and talkin bout ppl good well u need more then god

son.

you caught an L. shoot, you caught a vicious L off your own pitch.

you flopped. plain and simple. now, move on. that's all you've got to do, to be a functional human being.

if you know you're wrong for dehumanising keith and then thinking it was good material for the internet's(i.e. the PLANET's)entertainment, then there's nothing left for you to say.

period.

there's plenty that other folk can and should say about you and what you did. but if you want to really move on beyond this, as a result of your behaviour, you're out of the conversation.

just catch the L, son. after you called me, i stopped talking about it. not because you asked, but because you'd said you were sorry, i'd vented, a couple callers had expressed themselves; no need to carry things on. so, i stopped. if other folk kept rolling with it, mind you, i wouldn't have stopped 'em. 'cause because of what you did, they're allowed to talk about you. that said, the more you respond, the further it goes - 'cause then they're not talking about what you did, they're talking about what a whiny chump you are who can't handle his own mistakes like a man.

frankly, your apology seems so insincere now. like, you only said you were sorry to get people off your back as opposed to really understanding how evil making and showcasing that clip really was.

you were wrong. i really don't know if it's possible at this point, but catch your L gracefully, homie. that's the only way you'll get the peace you want.

deuces.

PS you KNOW i know some of your folks, so i'm talking to you from a healthy space. when i saw you, i didn't cuss you out; just dapped you up, let you get on the air to apologize; was sincerely happy you'd come by to do so. that was good business, solid L-catching. why mess that up, son? seriously? 'cause if what piglet says is true, based on your reaction to other people's reaction to your foul behaviour, something that could've been completely done yesterday might be what the country is talking about and looking at you screw faced over for the next couple weeks.

and that's your fault, nobody else's. which means it's your responsibility to fix it. so chill. catch your L, stop talking and feel remorseful.

deuces.

Toto,

At least I have a job....the old tax payer one....how.... :yawn:.....

Well we are at page six..... mostly driven by your sad comments.....did take long for your true colors to come through....

If I were family...I would be so proud of how you are handling this.....

There is only one true prick in all of this and you and the rest of Bermuda know who that is.....

Piglet

Thaao - K2U - for trying to get through to this young man. Piglet

Toto.....yoour more than welcome to express your viewpoints here on the site but please refrain from personal attacks and your continuous use of profanity. We all use naughty words here once in a while but you seem to be venting via profanity.

You have appoligised yet attack comments made. Some were negative but thats life. I was impressed that you did come here and inform us of the circumstances surrounding the video but you have taken it too another level.

I was going to lock down the thread an hour ago but deceided that members have a right to their opinions as so do you. Posters here have expressed their views and you should except them and move on. You can engage in conversation but lets leave out all the things you feel towards responce.

As for Thaao's comments I agree with him for once and applaud his approach which I have had to this whole thread. Karma to Thaao because in reality he did not have to ' put it on the table' as he did but by doing so he helped you to realise that what is done is done. Move on my son because pretty soon it will be 'water under the bridge' only if you let it flow.

Rummy. ;)

  Time lapses....eh. Guess we still think alike Piggy........................ ;)

Keith isn't the way he is because of an "addiction". He is mentally ILL....what a great stereotype to have

[FYI..thought I'd throw that in there]

As someone who personally knows Toto he is a good guy who did something that clearly and everyone can agree on he should not of done. He went on the air and apologized but that was not enough for everyone.

 Toto is not a bad guy, yes he did A incredibly stupid thing, if he did not realize what he did was inappropriate he would not of apologized and not of removed the video. Now that it has gotten to the point that it has OF COURSE he is going to get pissed off and start attacking back, even after he apologized. ANYONE who is being attacked would attack back!!

People who knows Toto personally knows this is not a TRUE reflection of his character. All those who do not know him personally you are just characterizing him by one action. I can bet $100,000 that if YOU reading this were to meet him outside this circumstance not knowing his name, not knowing that he was the one who did this, you would be SHOCKED if you found out this is the "horrible, stupid etc" guy who did that.

If everyone had to be judged by everyone from one clip of one stupid thing we did would all be horrible and stupid people. None of you know him as the friendly, funny, light hearted guy that he his, none of you know the MANY charity workds that his has done, non of you know the people who he has been there for. IT IS ONE EXTREAMLY STUPID ACTION.

He did not state about his heart attack etc. for you all to feel sympathetic towards him there was a comment made that due to a previous person saying something along the lines that if he was in regiment he would have more respect. He was simply explaining as to why he was not.

I am not justifying his ONE action but I am standing up for his character as a person because as a young person myself I can honestly say I have done some INCREDIEBLY stupid things in which I have learned from, and I can confidently say that I am POSTIVE that he has learned from this experience.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

yes, I get the point everyone feels as if he is not truly sorry for his actions and does not realize the extent of his actions. But what does he have to do so you can feel content. no matter he does it will never be enough.

He is a young guy whose stupid action is being judged everyone. and as sad as it is he is not the only one who has done this so instead of condemning and attacking only him, let us condemn the act all together and everyone who has ever said or done something disrespectful to ANY human being.

Call Em as I see  Em, My sentiments also. I have been in contact with "Toto" and he even thanked me for listening too him. As you have stated in your post I agree with you, ( very seldom that I do but your post covered the basics of forgiveness et al).

How many of us would find a site and do what he did? He has a consience and it is working overtime.

Welcome to the forum. I have been warry of  a few new members regarding the topic but it's a good sign that people in the know have open minds and hearts. This is a good starting point and should be used more often instead on condemnation.

Hope you stay with us. Karma................ :)

Just an Opinion - Keith is suffering on two fronts. I know this because I have seen him involved in drugs. I have spoken to him often and extensively. I know that he has mental health issues, but I can assure you that that $10 bill that toto so graciously gave him was down on Court Street before toto even got to his car. Sad, but true.

From the RG:

Around the Courts: December 23, 2003
________________________________________

________________________________________

Letter of the law

A 46-year-old man was sentenced to 90 days in prison for sleeping inside Hamilton Post Office and having drug equipment.

Keith Peniston, of no fixed abode, pleaded guilty in Magistrates' Court to breaching a no trespassing sign and possession of drug equipment yesterday.

Crown counsel Shakira Dill told the court how on Sunday Police found Peniston sleeping inside the post office near a no trespassing sign. And on May 12, Police found a plastic Bacardi bottle with a hole in it on him.

When asked what it was Peniston said: “It's a pipe. I'm a drug addict, so what?”

The bottle was found to have traces of cocaine on it.

Peniston has numerous convictions for trespassing in the Hamilton Post Office.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

At the end of the day - many without a home - have mental health and drug issues there is a body of studies on which came first the homelessness or the addictions.

Not that this is the main issue here - but it explains the comments of Terrycloth - who likely has had first hand contact with Keith over the years.

Posted for accuracy.

Piglet

Now, I may be asking a question that's already been asked, but I just couldn't make sense of most of this.

Did you apologize to Keith?

Still stereotyping I see....But you are very right in saying that this isn't the matter at hand and I personally apologize for the "inaccurate" statement however my mother works with him and he is indeed very sickly!

I also STRONGLY agree with what Call Em as I see em has to say about this! Definately openned some eyes and minds!

"and all u anonymous ppl"

oh, you mean like, all your anonymous 'friends', right? 

bahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

"if any one on here was mature enough they would have stopped talkin shit after i apologized"

 but that's not what you did.....

if you could have done it without the 'but this' and 'but that' this thing would have died two days ago.

give it up there's no explaining it.

PS - there is a difference between "i no" and "I know".....would make following your ramblings a lot easier if you could learn how to form a sentence....

toto -

from one of your friends on your wall:

"For all the times I've tried to prove that you were a royal **** and complete idiot, it looks as though all I had to do was wait for you to prove it yourself!"

at least one of your friends is speaking some sense.....

oh, wait, nevermind,  same girl:

"Need any help writing a statement that will actually go over well?

Seriously.

It's on the table."

"People who knows Toto personally knows this is not a TRUE reflection of his character. All those who do not know him personally you are just characterizing him by one action. I can bet $100,000 that if YOU reading this were to meet him outside this circumstance not knowing his name, not knowing that he was the one who did this, you would be SHOCKED if you found out this is the "horrible, stupid etc" guy who did that."

yeah but you see.......

this is also the guy who posted videos of himself riding through intersections on shopping carts, and standing in front of a dartboard while his buddy chucks darts at his head. 

maybe you're right.........maybe.......just maybe........he's not an asshole.

just a COMPLETE ****http://www.bermudasucks.com/forum/index.php?action=postsettings;sa=censor#;ING MORON

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v222/1539/31/n504646191_5633.jpg

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sorry I'll stop, this is just too fun....)

"People who knows Toto personally knows this is not a TRUE reflection of his character. All those who do not know him personally you are just characterizing him by one action. I can bet $100,000 that if YOU reading this were to meet him outside this circumstance not knowing his name, not knowing that he was the one who did this, you would be SHOCKED if you found out this is the "horrible, stupid etc" guy who did that."

Perhaps a person should not be defined on the basis of a single act. However I would suggest that his constant defense of his actions and half-hearted 'apologies' for his actions, matched with his aggression and attempt to deflect attention from the real issues probably gives us a decent idea of what type of individual he is.

Maybe it is time to lock down this thread to protect toto from making himself look like more of an ass.  He clearly needs some sort of parental supervision.

Hey toto - love the headline on your facebook - "celeb status keep hating bermy yall need a ****in life asap if u cant afford one holla ill give u the change but u have to do push ups."

Sounds very remorseful indeed. 

perhaps its my sick sense of humour that let me laugh when I read his Facebook headline...

There was some cleverness to it though, so that could be it too...

If Yall got more hate for ToTo, let it out n lets move on...this is really repetitive. Whatever u think ur gonna get from ToTo, ur probably not. And ToTo, these guys will shut up once the new replies stop poppin up, plain n simple.

I did enjoy watching all of u guys gang up and belittle someone though...

-post ur opinion/voice ur concern? yea.
-go overboard/fly off the handle? in my opinion, mos def.

Just my opinion, n voicing my concern...hope i stayed on board.

No answer to my question?

'Cuz personally, I don't need an apology.

But Kieth probably does.

So... have you apologized to him, toto?

Just curious.

Perhaps it would make a good sequel to the original...

Good point, CO.

Here's a sample script for ya, toto.

"Hi. I'm the guy that made that nasty video. It was an asshole move on my part and I can't begin to apologize, but in hopes of putting this to rest...
(Cut to you and Keith)
Sir, what I did was wrong and should never have happened. I'm sorry."
(Fade to black)"

End of story.

Noone is trying to belittle him. He does a good enough job of that himself. As a segment of society we are just expressing our opinion on a person who gets entertainment via the dehumanizing of another less fortunate individual. We are sticking up for the weak.  Noone asked the guy to come on here, noone demanded his "apology" (although UE did ask if an apology was offered to Keith - a very good point in my opinion). But when he came on here and made excuse after excuse about his 'silly mistake' and attacked people on here and just acted like a child that got caught, then he brought all this on himself. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining. He proclaims to be regrettful then posts stupid things that show his true colours. You cant have it both ways - one minute the admitted (but reservedly ) bad guy/silly youth, the next the poor victim - please - man up! You make your bed you lie in it.

But - I see where you are coming from. Society should just ignore people that abuse, degrade and violate. To hell with the victims....

UE - I agree with the concept, but I would hope that the apology would be a private one. I see no need for it to be posted on facebook or anywhere else. To do so would just magnify the situation and humiliate the man further.

Beating this to death!

And dude "But - I see where you are coming from. Society should just ignore people that abuse, degrade and violate. To hell with the victims...."

Um, alil less of the drama...u dont need to take  this to the extreme to make ur point bro...believe me, I got ur point after the 2nd post....all the rest are just repetition...

And I was hardly advocating what u suggest. I simply dont agree that ToTo is an idiot/moron/retard etc, and being that Ive known him since Kindergarden aka 5yrs old, I'd say I have a better perspective of who he is. But we can disagree, that's fine. But your opinion is based on what you think from hearing a story, My opinion is based on actually knowing the person.

So i guess....if I heard a terrible story about something stupid ur friend did:

would u defend ur friend's character while admitting his actions were stupid?

Or

would you jump on the band wagon and belittle your friend?

Maybe now u'll see things from my perspective rather than just shooting off a response so quickly.

Lock this thread up, mod. The hall monitors have run their course.

7 pages... LOL... who knew!?   :yawn:

Well I must admit I'm more than a little disappointed to see how this whole thing has played out. Toto - you really need to step back and possibly seek a little counselling, get in with a program that helps you understand why people are jumping all over your case.

Thaao - that was a good aproach from someone closer to his age. K2U.

If there is ever a silver lining in this whole sad affair it's that young Bermudians will see just how much trouble they can get themselves into by acting in manner that exposes their stupidity to the world. The ramifications of one single instance on the WWW can come back and beat you with a whipping stick crafted by your own hand. I originally thought this might have been a one-off incident but now I'm not so sure.

Toto - you seem to have a few friends who will stand by you. You even have one who's willing to help you with your diction. I highly recommend you take her up on it. Not just for this instance but for future needs. I also hope your friends are true friends and help you truly understand the reasons why everyone has been so offended by your actions, both with regard to Keith as well as your follow up here.

No, he doesn't.

He's a kid... He was ****ing around, doing something stupid and cruel and got caught out and he's being beaten down for it, so he's reacting.
Overreacting, as are most in the thread.

The guy ****ed with Kung Fu and filmed it. Asshole manouver? Yes.
Cause for counselling? Come on.

When you are 21 years old - the 'Kid Excuse' is no longer one that you can use.

Piglet

UE - you're never to old to have a Big Brother....

Terry cloth.  

Had your orignal post been this sensible i wouldnt have came on here and proclaimed your "Holier than thou" attitude.  I was thoroughly DISGUSTED in the way you initianally attacked toto.  I completely understood you point, but the way you made your point was very unnecessary.  I made clear my disagreement with Toto's actions yet you insisted i was defending them. I was simply pointing out the fact that the adjectives you and some others used to describe Toto were of the same nature as his actions.  U should understand that 2 wrongs do not make anything right, and your disgust with his actions can be described by simply saying "I am disgusted with your actions toto." That is what i did.  He showed me the video and i said "toto i dont approve of this, if i was there i would have given kieth the money before he had a chance to hit the floor."  I understand that people have a right to remain anonymous. Do i agree with it in a situation like this one? NO! I believe a man should stand by his word AT ALL TIMES. If you feel so strongly about wat you say then i again urge you to contact me personally and we can have an adult conversation.  if not, I can atleast thank you for the improvement on the context of your comments.

My goal is to make those around me better. I understand how to do this and i know that it is not to call names and belittle, because what you have done instead of attempting to resolve a situation, u have belittled another. Thats 2 belittled people (not to mention the entire island which is belittled by the name of this particular site) needless to say 2 belittled, disrespected, etc. ppl are worse than one.  So in the future make your comments constructive from get go. And if you do encounter me again in anyway in the future remember this, i stand by what is right, not who is right. Therefore your reply to my comments is sensless. It seems you were attempting to prove my stance wrong, but i promise you I have thought it through thoroughly.  Perhaps i was a little one sided because i was one of 3 ppl at the time supporting toto. Nevertheless i didnt actually come on here to defend my comments.  

I also think the last sentence of sarcasm in your most recent comment was unnecessary.  

To uncle elvis, toto said on the forum as well as to me personally that he will be making no further comments on this issue.  He is going to apologize to kieth when he sees him again.  I would also like to remind you people that if you have recently seen kieth you will notice crutches. Keith was assulted, i make this statement not as an attempt to deflect the injustice done to kieth by toto (and others that you all have seemed to froget about) but to suggest a more important issue to address.  Also the cruthces that you see kieth limping around on were donated directly to him curtiousy of toto. Just an example on my part of his character.

I would also like to thank Thaao Dill for his constructive words. I would also remind you Thaao (I hope i spell your name correctly)  that you are a Senator and as well as a young Bermudian who I am sure has encountered dificulties somewhere in your life.  Your duty to this country is as a Senator FIRST, a representative for young people SECOND and THIRDLY, a radio DJ.  Though i realize the blasting of toto on your morning show makes for good radio, as someone who has surely encountered difficulties your first move should have been to contact him yourself. Man to man. There was NO need to blast him on radio if you felt what he done was wrong. As a Senator this would have been the most admirable way to approach this. Now you have made his life just that bit more difficult instead of helping him to improve by giving him initially the wonderful advice you have given on this site.  I also think that if toto made news "BermudaSucks.com" should get a spot on your show as a website name demeaning to Bermuda.  


peace and blessings to you all and remember to think wisely before you  speak, and try not to judge and offend others with your words.

"I also think that if toto made news "BermudaSucks.com" should get a spot on your show as a website name demeaning to Bermuda."

LOL - I think that's a great idea!  Somehow I don't think it will ever happen. :)

Cush - you need to understand where the name BermudaSucks came from. It was a rant against the system that demeans expats. The same system that is in place today where we have guys like Burgess, Scott, Burch and even Premier Brown making nasty threats and belittling expats. It's a name but in many way it truly reflect some of the issues about Bermuda.

Ironically there is another thing that really sucks about Bermuda. We have too many young people who don't respect those less fortunate than themselves and go out of their way to harass them. Be it a Phillipino worker just trying to cook a hamburger for a drunk Bermudian at three am in the morning or a mentally ill street person...

As a Bermudian, I'm glad I have an opportunity to state my opinions in a clear unadulterated fashion. And I'm glad you have an opportunity to openly discuss these issues with me. We had a Limey in Bermuda but he got run out of town. Get demeaning of what I'm saying? Peace.

Also without agreeing with what was done, I can present the reasoning of why toto has been so aggressive on this site.  He has been backed into a corner by many of you and a natural reaction in this situation is to fight. As well as the fact that toto has been desparatety trying to get this situation forgotten about. He has litterally tried everything.  He apologized. When that didnt work and he saw the disrespect towards him in terry cloths messages and others like terry cloth whose names escape my memory, he defended himself. What else is a man to do? I told him he should have bowed out gracefully but not everyone is able to put up with such negativity.  It can be frustrating.  So he further replied. He stated ^ pages and we will make more videos. page 8 and no new videos added. It is obvious he said that in an attempt to extinguish the situation. A bad idea? Yes.

And againt to those of you who are saying "he only apologized cuz he got caught"  It is not always the case that we as humans are able to see all of our mistakes. If he realized how wrong it was at the time there would have been no video. But because it took us to point his misdeed out to him, he had to step up and do the right thing after the fact.  Just realize that you all are talking about a flawed person. Someone not unlike yourselves. We are all flawed. Not one of us has been made perfect.  But this shouldnt stop us from trying to live righteously nor from striving for perfection.

Gladly i can report totos growth since to this situation.  So those of you who are curious, there it is. The toto you all will see from this day forward will be increasingly better in all respects.

fair enough, but how about a site that says the system sucks? Bermuda doesnt suck man. This island is wonderful, and for anoutsider to look at that title for the first time he is going to say " wat the hell is so bad about bda that a local would start a site called bermudasucks.com" these forums could all be held at bermudarocks.com and you wouldnt hear another word from me on the topic. as long as this site exists tho, i will be one, if THE ONLY, unhappy bermudian.  I do understand you poin though. i hope u see mine as well

Then don't read it. Then again you would be left out of the loop so to say. Plus you have freedom of speech here and you seem to be using it to your advantage. Does not matter if it 'sucks' or it's a 'rock'.........it's reallity. :)

Just an Opinion,

No one is stereotyping anyone. As I said there are bodies of studies from Canada, The UK, the US to Australia that report that many homeless people suffer from addictions (drugs and alcohol) and or Mental Health issues.

I can also speak to this from first hand experiences......

You were the one who brought up Mental Health issues - I merely expanded on the topic - as I stated the question is what comes first - Homelessness or the Addictions. That is what the bodies of research and study have looked into.

Next time do yourself a favour - read what is written - do some research and formulate an answer or response that may have some interest or value to others.

Piglet

I thought the web sites name was two fold. One as described above, the other because Bermudians like to "suck" their teeth as a form of expression.

Anyway, I digress, I to know Toto (he won't know me from here though) and I do agree with the sentiments that he is, at the end of the day a good person. He is young, perhaps a little bit misguided, but he does like to be the centre of attention. This is where the good and the bad don't mix.

I just hope that at the end of the day Toto learns from this, and more so than Toto, the general youth learn as well.

Cush - I hear you but first off it was started by an expat, not a local. Second much like Limey's site did, it allows "everyone" to discuss what's good and what's bad about Bermuda. Although true, finding the puff pieces are hard to come by. Trouble is no-one likes to discuss the negative aspects of Bermuda and yet they get the most esposure... wonder why? If people researching Bermuda come across this site I imagine they will realize we have numerous threads to get a better understanding of the island. Warts and all.

If Mike & Reality wanted to change the name to something like BermudaSpeaks I'd have no problem. I think people have come to respect this site more for it's content than just it's name. But I kinda like to be reminded that Bermuda's not just pink houses, blue skies and miles of sandy beaches... and some of it sucks.

CO - you shouldnt be suprised that this thread is so long, it is symbolic of society. Where an individual in a real or perceived superior position takes advantage of someone weaker. It is happening on various scales throughout the world. What this guy did was as supremist as any other scenario that you can think of. It isnt ok that he did it to an addict/homeless person. I dont think the thread is silly or a waste of time. (just an opinion) I think it is important to speak out against any form of supremacy.

Cush, I dont believe I have ever posted on this site to gain approval of others contributing. I likewise do not think I have been a rider on any bandwagon. Let me clarify. My comments are my own. I do not attirbute my comments or opinions to any other person on this board or elsewhere. If I stand alone, so be it.

I make no apologies, because I have the backbone to do so, for my comments. I stand by them and will not retract them. How anyone can be considered to have a hollier than thou attitude when decrying such a moronic act is beyond me. Your loyalty to your friend is admirable, but since you asked, I would not defend my friend for such an action. I would chastise him/her as much as I am chastising toto, and to be honest if my friend was as disturbed as this, to see humour in something like this and show such little remorse for his actions then I am afraid I wouldnt count that person as a friend.

Now - Remorse. All I can say is read his posts, read his facebook headline and consider his actions. Consider his apology and the conditions attached thereto. Substitute toto for my name and ask if you wouild be convinced if I had done the same.

I have expressed my disgust with his actions. Regrettably, his comments and actions that followed kept the saga going. Someone said that his facebook heading was meant as a joke - but lets not forget that the video tape of him abusing Keith was also meant as a joke, so was posting it. What a funny guy. Is this someone who is remorseful? IS this someone who has learned a lesson?

No - I dont think so.

I have belittled someone? - Who have I belittled? How have I belittled them? IS it because I told them what I thought about them? Is it because I said that he was an imbecile for what he did? Is he that sensitive? His comments seem like he can stand up for himself.

But alas, I have said before that there is noone more blind as he who will not see. I cant say much more on the topic. I'll leave the rest up to Karma.

TC - To each their own. I just figured that we established like 2 pages into it that it was an a$$hole move I don't think it is up to us to determine whether his apology was genuine or not. It's just not our place and there are some individuals who wouldn't be satisfied with ANYTHING that toto did or said following the lapse of judgment on his part.

Now, granted responding or trying to defend himself to a bunch of individuals on an internet forum probably isn't the fastest way to put things to bed, but it's natural to want to defend yourself when being attacked.

I'm glad to see the community condemning this type of behaviour and actually glad that it was aired on HOTT 1075 to send a message that this type of bad behaviour isn't cool, admirable, clever, whitty or anything like that. But then again... neither is continuing to badger a 21 year old who has admitted his transgressions and the accompanying criticism.

Rummy needs to hurry up and find that damn key.

Key too what Casual.........?

key to lock this thread  ;)

CO - the dude had his Spitzer moment. He even had a woman offer to stand by his side and help him out. :)

As to apologies on an internet forum, I think it goes like this:

Toto: I was an insensitive idiot, I apologize.
Piglet: %$^&*#$  *&^% %^!!
Totoa: Yes I was an idiot. I apologize.
SevenT: %$^^&**** (()&^ %$##$ ^& !!
Toto: Yes as I said I was insentive idiot. Moron if you will. I apologise.
Smoking Gun: %$#$%%^@# &^% &%$ !!
Toto: Thank you, I understand. I apoligize.
CO: Stop apologizing already..... sheesh.
Toto: Yes I should stop apologizing so much. I apologize for apologizing so much.....

Page three.

Piglet: Hey he certainly apologized.
SevenT: Yes he did.
SmokingGun: Hmmmm... maybe a little too much?
CO: Enough already, can we just drop this subject???  Grrr.
UE: Yes but still no-one answered my question....did he apologize to Keith?

 ;)

CO - as always I cannot find fault in your logic. I can assure you that I do nto fall into the category that you allude to in your first paragraph. Hell, I even tried to give Tigga and Biggie a second chance!

I think you will find that most (although not all) of my posts have been in response to people other than toto so I dont feel I am badgering toto, but at the same time in the circumstances I see no harm in doing so .

As for the 21 year old excuse that keeps rearing its ugly head, I have to agree with Piglet. At 21 you arent a silly youth, you are an adult. THere are men and women a lot younger serving and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I know where it is but it's up to you and other members to move on. Ther's no point in locking it. Ignore it as you have said in the past If I lock it, what does that do except deny access. People will start another thread with relative points and so it goes on. Just because it's 'locked' does not mean it's 'locked'..............come on......just because some are bored with it....then why comment? Carry an extra set of keys and lock yourself out.....thats the best way.................... :)

BTW - TC - my sincere apologies for not including you in the cast of characters.

SG - apology accepted! (see - I can do it  :D )

Indeed that's the best way... although I'm interested in seeing what the page count is before we get bored of telling the guy how much of an a$$hole he is...

Lock the thread - give me a break - this is a site for free expression. There have been other threads which have not nearly dealt with the many issues that this one keeps addressing!

CO - you know some of them!

This will all stop and had stopped - save for some not getting the point of trying to justify what can't be justified!

When they get that point this will end the story!

Piglet

Karma Piglet - in a nutshell!! Glad Someone is getting the picture. 

Piglet, if you are waiting for people to admit that they are wrong without trying to justify it, you obviously were born yesterday, hah.

*my bill lumbergh impressionB* Mmmmmmmnhyyyeaaah, good luck with that...

I wasn't born yesterday and I have met many people with the courage, honour and depth of character to admit they were wrong without trying to make excuses, deflect blame or justify their actions.

I am only sad, that clearly, you have never met such people in your life.

Piglet


PS - This isn't about the ‘apology' or the incident it is about the behaviour and actions after such which has only served to compound the original incident and make many question the sincerity of the actions to date.

Whoa, back up Piglet. That was a joke darling.

hey hey Rummy said something I can understand!!!   ;)

eh, now ima have an angry rummy on my case  :blink:

but yea. True dat Rummy, good call.  :D

I am so disappointed as a new person to this site I thought that it was a site to rant about issues not to belittle and attack and judge individuals of the community...

The issue at hand has gone from the treatment of homeless people to lets us go out of our way look for someone on facebook and watch his every move. With everything going on  the island, ranting about an individual has gotten to 9 pages WOW


WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE and attack the character of a member of the community …. He isn’t even a member of parliament, he is not a teacher, not  any way shape or form a leader… so him being a good or bad person is of any importance to you because??

Let us bitch at the issue at hand already People disrespecting the homeless, (because HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE) The problem of homelessness PERIOD!!!!  Not if you think Toto is a good guy or not.. You think he is an asshole congratulations to you choose not  to associate with him in public!

Breathe there buddy.  There has been a lot of whining about this guy but also a lot of the 9 pages (this post about a post, makes it 10 pages...LMAO!!!) is made up of legal chat and general issues that you allude to.  Most of the space is taken up by people quoting people and then whinging about their quote, lol.  the fact it's at 9 pages is down to posts such as your own.
Untwist knickers.

Call Em, are you perhaps implying that just because Toto is not in a position of authority, his actions are not important? And no, ranting about an individual has not gotten to 9 pages, condemning him and his actions during and after has gotten to 9 pages. Anyone who has such blatant disrespect for another human being would get the same treatment here as they rightly should do. Especially when said person chooses to justify their actions. That is the real crux of the matter. That anyone would consider their actions defensible in a situation like this is ridiculous. Indeed had he apologized for his actions in and of themselves instead of trying to attach "I'm a really good person... and this is why", then I suspect it wouldn't have gotten this far. But he didn't. And that in itself shows his character.

And as a member of the same society as himself, I DO have the right to judge him, as he has the right to do so to me. Keith is actually a close cousin of mine. And even if he wasn't I would still be angry. Him being a good or bad person is important to all of us because in a community as small and interconnected as Bermuda, his actions may actually affect me. What if he had chosen to do something demeaning to any of our mothers? Is that justifiable because he does other good deeds??

And to deflect the issue of the thread by commenting that "others do" is horrible, surely you see that? That is not an excuse that anyone should be proud to stand behind.

B-15: Clear to send!

Sorry, couldn't resist the (very obscure) reference - it's to a wonderful (and very apropos :-) piece of old computer humor, which may be found here (http://ana.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/humour/mumps.message), among other places.

Noel

Piglet was merely expressing the sentiment that most of us on here seem to agree with - that it is impossible to defend, by any excuse, an act which was flagrantly disrespectful to a fellow human being... it's like trying to justify the Holocaust - it can't be done.

I also agree with Rummy that locking down a topic simply because of a rising page count or because some people are getting bored with the subject is contrary to the spirit of this forum and would not prevent the users who wished to, quite rightfully, express their feelings simply starting another thread with a different title. Don't forget that quite a few of the regular members were around over the weekend when all this initially erupted - they may be reading all of this, for the first time, today and wish to add their 2 cents to the thread... If it is getting boring then don't read it - it's not mandatory, at least the last time I looked at the rules it wasn't!

Over the weekend I said my piece and made my thoughts known about toto's actions when this first surfaced... having said all I wished to say and watched others say the same things although much more effectively (Kudos to Thaao, Piglet, TC, Rummy et al. on that one) I was content to sit back and watch but this thread seems to have developed onto a different theme which I find a little disturbing - the right to free expression and its attempted suppression to try to defend the indefensible - which is the only reason that I am back here now.

I think the saying goes something like... All it takes for evil to flourish is that good men and women to look away and do nothing.

There but for the grace of god go you or I... given a few wrong breaks in life, you or I could so easily be in Keith's situation - if I were to find myself in his situation I would like to know that there were a few "good souls" who at the very least wrote a few indignant words trying to explain that whatever I have become I was, once upon a time, a human being with the same rights, hopes and aspirations as everyone else.

In reality we on BdaSucks are pretty powerless to do anything concrete about injustices that we perceive happening... making our feelings known by venting them here is usually our only safety-valve. Please don't take even that away from us by implying our contributions are boring and unwanted.

 

SevenT

Again SevenT, just a joke to alleviate some of the tension, something I do alot. Life is too damn short really. I've said my bit (please read my post two posts ago - you are preaching to the choir and attacking the wrong person.

However, I do certainly think that enough has been said on this. I'm sure he gets we are pissed whether or not he and his friends agree with our summations. But that's just my opinion. As you were.  8)

Yessss... but it is a bit troubling that people are apparently learning these things at circa 20 years of age, and not at a much earlier age. I'd hope that not being demeaning to other human beings was a lesson given much earlier, when it could help with other social ills (e.g. bullying in school).

Noel

Godwin's Law!

Noel

alsys30,

I missed the joke - my apologises for that..... ;)

Piglet

The most disturbing part of this thread has been the standard of grammar and English in general, by some.  I guess I'll now be seen as being overly critical and whatever else of these young people but there you go.  
I suppose it might be akin to the text speak that youngsters are using nowadays so nothing to do with levels of education, but the same mistakes perpetuate that are clearly just not known to be incorrect.  A classic example of which is the use of the word 'of' instead of 'have', another might be 'no' and 'know', 'to' and 'too' (might be a typo though).
Anyway, I just felt that maybe education might form a part of the reasoning behind ANY 20 year old behaving the way perhaps some of us did when we were 13/14.  Is it at all possible that development is being retarded through a lack of education?

**** This is a comment generally and not a slight on this guy with the camcorder*******

I pointed this out in my first post, and I am now re-reading all of my communications on this site to check my spelling, punctuation and grammer is all correct and above board. Can't have the grammar police after me  :P

I do agree though that some of the stuff written on this particular subject is almost unreadable. There is one in particular, that if you were able to read it, you probably could swim from here to the UK under water without the need for a breath.

1400 views and 10 pages... whoever knew that Sucks cared so much about homelessness  :P

I always love this one. ;D

Sorry.

I got it correct the second time    ;)

But I apologize unreservedly for my error.

And I promise not to be-little this incident. (shouldn't really start a sentence with "and" but......)

I am a :dunce:

I know, hence my careful quote choice!!

Nearly as much as the Regiment one?

Piglet

'Can't have the grammar police after me '

Fear not there is no room in the Policing Plan for them.....rest easy......

Piglet...  ;)...

Not by a mile  ;)

haha ahah good joke.

I'm glad this post has cooled down quite a bit. This issue is a serious one. The mistreatment of the Homeless in Bermuda. The mistreatment of ANYONE ANYWHERE is a serious issue as we are all created EQUALLY.  Which means the mistreatment of a homeless person, or the mistreatment of the person who mistreated the homeless, is equally as bad.  I do think that people should be scolded for there wrong doings to an extent. I dont believe that calling them names and other similar forms or disrespect are helpful. As a matter of fact, as someone who has experienced both forms of criticism, I would have bet on a young person to react the way toto reacted.  When you talk with an angry attitude the recipient of those words is more likely to go into a rejective state and deflect the positive underying message because it is covered so thickly in negativity. C-nt this, a$$hole, that, that is the talk that sparks anger in anyone.  I am not justifying toto's responses to many of the comments on here because in truth i would have advised him to respond differently or not at all. But you will surely find that many people in their early 20's are quite rebelious. I speak from someone very much a part of that community as I am 22 years old.  I have learned to take the good from the bad, but it was a consious decision I made. Before this decision, I was equally as likely to respond as toto has to many of you.  I would have also responded to his actions in a manner not unlike the manner that has been displayed in some of these posts.  I now realize this to be sensless. Anger begets anger and anger is a negative, unproductive attitude.  I urge all of you to stand by your ideas, but choose your words more wisely.  We should all work together to achieve a better World. 

Thank you all for reading.

p.s. I actually love the idea of this site. I just really do not appreciate the title. lol. i know you all have heard me say that enough.  I realize that an ex-pat started the sight. It was simply my opinion to what an outsider's first impression would be. Thats what i thought when i first heard this post was on a sight called "bdasucks" I actually thought it was some kind of a joke site.  To be completely honest, it offends me a bit more to know that an ex-pat named the site.  I love Bermuda, and though some of the situations in Bermuda quite rightfully "suck" Bermuda Does not. :)

"But you will surely find that many people in their early 20's are quite rebelious. I speak from someone very much a part of that community as I am 22 years old."

Good to hear. Just stop wasting your time picking on the down and out and go get rebellious on the a##holes that are stealing your future. Then maybe we wouldn't have to have a website called Bermuda Sucks. Are you up for it?

As do we all.


As do many of us! Sigh, we're probably stuck with it now - the 'brand' is so well known! I suppose all we can do is say it with an ironic spin - as a place to come and talk about the bad stuff, while still realizing that there's a lot of good stuff.


Hey, that's free speech. Besides, which does it make it worse to have been an ex-pat? They aren't allowed to have opinions, or express them?


I think you'll find almost everyone who posts here either agrees, or is pretty neutral. People who really hate Bermuda wouldn't bother, I suspect... 'life's short, move on' kind of thing.

Noel

Words to live by - have a look back sometime and reflect on what you have said - I think Toto and you could have done a better job of trying to make your points - without some of the words that were unwisely chosen in some of your responses.

No excuses....

2 cents

Piglet

Yall need to re-read what you said, and re-think what some of you did. A lot of people over-reacted and got pretty offensive. It might not be as bad as what ToTo did, but it's still wrong. Going on people's facebook and posting that info here and leaving offensive messages is just wrong. You like to talk about the problems with young ppl in Bda, but you don't lead by example. No one here is without fault, no one.

my last 2 cents on this whole issue/bullshit

Um Um... I thought Toto and his ace-byes wanted this whole topic to die.... or are we trying to get it up to page 12? :-\

Most members here have stayed away from the subject as Smokes said, I have also.

Toto let it go and is moving on. Karma too him. I wish him the best. We all make mistakes but in this day and age it can bite you real quick with a keyboard and a TV screen.................... ;)

Good lord... it's like a bad rash.... ::) :P

Are you really  "Sven"...or are you George in the next cubical next too Dilbert?

Guess your still in training eh.....or are you training......with a avtar like that looks like your a Bee Gees wanna beeeeeeeee ;D

Jokasmoke,

I speak for myself and myself only - I do choose my word carefully and I was not offensive in my replies to anyone.

My reply was to Cush and used his own words which I agree with.... I simply agreed and asked him to reflect on some of the words he and Toto choose to use - which I am not interested in repeating - but did not help to convey their  points.

In order to develop and or mature - it is always a good idea to reflect on what was said, how it was said and look for a better way to do it in the future. The whole point of my post.

Again I have an interest as most of us do about problems in Bermuda - I do lead by example everyday - sure I make mistakes but when I do I acknowledge them, don't blame anyone else for my conduct and move on!

If we all try to do this what a better place this world would be......

I agree time to move on - Toto seems to have moved on - would be nice if his friends did the same?

Piglet

Got something of  a point there.


People seem to have this bizarre sensation that Facebook and other social sites are... private. Witness the comments left about Dr. Brown, and the pictures of people in the Bacardi fountain, yadda-yadda. It's almost like they feel like they are in a closed room with their friends.

Well, their friends are there... but so is everyone else, even if they aren't speaking. People are just going to have to really absorb that lesson.

Sigh, I guess in prior generations, before information flew so freely around the globe at the speed of light, teenagers and young adults did dumb things and only a few people saw it / heard it. Now those words and actions escape to far larger realms... and even worse, are stored away forever, instantly accessible at the touch of a mouse-click.

The Internet giveth, and the Internet taketh away...

Noel

As the person who posted his facebook entry, allow me to explain my rationale. This person claimed to be apologetic and all his friends came on board to complain about how terrible we were and how remourseful he was. I chose to comment on his facebook, you know the same facebook that he chose to place the video, about how I felt about the issue and his apology. WHen I saw his comments, it made a mockery of what I already believed to be a half-hearted response. He had betrayed those that had chosen to accept his apology and move on (I was not one of those I must hasten to add). I referred to this entry as an example of his immaturity and insincerity. A view I still hold.

Get your point there Mr. Cloth. Wonder how many others will.

Now go and have tea with the.....oops...almost birthday time...... ;)

Piglet my response wasn't directed at you, but everyone. I realize me quoting you could lead you to think it was, but it wasn't.

Noel i hear your pnt on the internet // how easily information can spread and you're right. People shouldn't expect that information to be 100% private.

My point was, I felt that alot of the people who replied and were offensive & over the top seemed to think that ToTo's actions gave them the right to speak to Antonio (and about him) the way they did...Which is just ridiculous. Not to mention questionin his apology and its sincerity. As if We, the users on BdaSucks are some sort of judge/jury that he has to prove his sincerity to b4 we accept his apology. He didn't even have to come on here, he owes us nothing, and yet he did but that wasn't good enough. Then, once things started to settle it had to be brought up how the "youf" type and how the grammer used is terrible.   Look for things to knit pick at much?

I know it may appear that im trying to get this going again and u guys don't need to respond if you don't want to. But, it's something I've thought about since all this started and I felt it should be brought up. Sorry if any of you don't feel the same way, but that doesnt take away from the validity of my comments.

One last thing: I'd like to remind some of you, who may respond, of the advice you gave to antonio:


Please dont bother posting why you said what you said, because ultimately why doesn't matter. The point is, you said it.

Joka - if you want to give lessons in online etiquette I'd highly recommend you start a new thread. This subject is not exactly one whereby people would be expected to keep their cool when responding to the news. And besides I'd rather be learning more about how well Toto's fundraiser is going. :)

Joka - we are the judge and jury. We are society (or at least a segment of it). I would suggest we are an accurate cross section of society (some may disagree, but that is not the point). When he put something out there for public consumption - which facebook is unless you opt for private security settings which he did not - then you expose yourself and open yourself up for assessment. To think other wise is naive. 

Why should he get points for coming on here? The sincerity of his apology was questioned because of his actions AFTER he apologized including the quote that I put on here which showed most independently thinking people that the apology was a farce. Even if it was the most heart felt and sincere apology ever offered by a human being, that does not EXCUSE his actions and does not EXCUSE him from rebuke. 'Sorry' doesnt make things disappear. Not when you are 21 years old!

Joka,

You keep referring to posts I made (which is why I have replied)  - by cutting and pasting portions of them out of context.

This thread was about an incident involving Toto and issues that arose after the apology etc.

If you have issues about how people on this site reacted - the start a new thread and deal with those issues this is not about the initial incident anymore.

If you want to quote things that I have said - please place them in context of when and how they were said - trying to cherry pick,  rewrite and then rebut what was said (out of context)  is not very accurate or helpful.

Piglet

Piglet,  perhaps I was a bit harsh towards TC but i certainly chose my words with care. I few mispellings here and there, I guess that comes with not having spell check on my internet expolorer. Other than that, I believe what i said was pretty straight forward. When I made my points I spoke only of the points I felt necessary to make. I do not expect people to "read in between the lines" to discover a hiddedn meaning. I said what needed to be said and omitted everything else.  As for the person who believes I dont do the necessary to help my peers, i would like to remind you that I am only 22 years old. Its a process and I am in the middle of it.  I know I have been put on earth to help others. This is what i live by, and what i live for. I would like to remind all of you that i didnt come on this sight to defend toto's actions. I came on here to point out the disrespect towards toto, that in my eyes, is very similar to the disrespect toto and and his friends showed to kieth.  I stand by every word I said and I also understand that it was hard to see my point givin the original cause of discussion.  I also pointed out my emotions from some personal experiences in hopes of reminding some of you of yours. I see that some of you were able to understand me, and I am glad, but for me to log back on and find that my general message has be missed by some and that i have been quoted completely out of context of my message and there are rebuttles based on perhaps a paragraph of my words is slightly annoying. I also realize this is the reality of this site and others like it.  I believe we need to all fight for the like goal of a better world. Forgive me if i was a bit one sided in my point making but when i joined the site only one other person was attempting to show you all the better side of toto.  Again, NOT defending his actions.  Anyway, I have had enough of this post lol. it has been interesting and its sharpened my debate skills quite a bit. Thank you all for reading my posts.

Cushi

p.s. I chose my words very carefully. I would gladly repeat any of the things i said in person because I chose not to make extremely disrespectful comments. I know you would all love to say you would say some of these things to toto and I face to face but i dont believe it. No one goes up to a person they dont know and calls them a C*nt. Thats how ppl get into fights. to avoid this we choose our words to be less offensive. And again, I AM preaching to my peers. Messages of peace and spirituality and reality. Also of the mask that hides whats actually reality. The darker side of things. Unfortunately too many ppl are caught up in smoking, drinking, partying, and money, to listen. But that is the time we live in. Revelation predictied it, now we must live it.

Peace and blessings fellow readers.  Be open minded, be humble, be positive, be forgiving, and be careful.  Apply these words to everything and your life will change for the better :)

Cush,

I think you have a lot to offer this site with your views.

I for one hope you consider staying around.

Plenty of other topics for us to comment on.

Have a good weekend and hope to see some other posts from you?

Piglet... ;)...

The following observation is not intended to give you a hard time, or make fun of you - rather, it's to make a larger point. That expression would be nit pick (from 'nit', a small parasite).

The larger point is that it's things like that that make people come across online as not very well read, or something - because presumably they either haven't come across the expression in print before, or didn't retain the spelling (perhaps because spelling isn't important to them - maybe that's fair, maybe it's not, but spelling has traditionally been a measure used to get a sense of how well read/educated people are - because many people learn to spell well by reading a lot).

Like it or not, people draw inferences (sometimes correct, sometimes incorrect) from little clues like this. It happens in meat-space too. I know, because I'm not much of one for snappy dressing (for a variety of reasons), and I've paid a price for that. But I know up front it's going to happen, and accept the cost, and can compensate to some degree (e.g. by sounding cultured and intelligent, which fairly quickly - to the perceptive - makes the dress more of an eccentricity, than any simple message about who I am) - and can also turn up spiffy when the occasion really demands it.

So it's not just nit-picking, some of it is people looking for clues as to what people really are... That's just the way the world works... (and there are cuneiform tablets from Babylon complaining about the manners of the youth, so this is a very old story indeed).

Noel

If one uses a modern computer, then there is no excuse for misspelling!  Particularly if you use Firefox, which will highlight your spelling mistakes as you type.  I used to read a lot... but I learned how to spell with my first spell-check programme years ago... and I'm interested in words and semantics.  I am always looking up words (http://dictionary.reference.com/) that Noel uses.  LOL.  ;D :D :) 8)

Problem is, spell checkers don't work for homonyms. I see mistakes of that sort in the paper all the time "towe the line", "taking a different tactk, etc, etc. Sad commentary...

Noel

Yup very true. People don't read enough real books these days...

Alas methinks this subject should be in a different thread.



SevenT

wow.. Just to let you all know the two girls who participated in that video are shante ingemann.. Yes the same girl who aided her mother in a bar fight that ended in a poor woman almost losing here ear and her cousin kaori richardson... I have seen these two dare I say young woman out and. It makes me sad because I know they're gonna end up just like wendy ingemann.. Shantes mother.. In prison.. If not stopped!

mmmmm - someone seems to have an axe to grind. I dont know about anyone else amongst the regular contributors, but I would rather you grind it someplace else. Please contribute by all means, but I dont think too many people here are interested in your obvious vendetta against this person.

I couldn't have said that any better. And this comes from the mouth of, yes, Shante Ingemann. Karma, please keep your opinions to yourself, or better yet, send me a personal message on Facebook seeing as you seem to be so involved in my page.

Hi Shante22, welcome to the forum.

Grain of salt alert - this account was registered with a free e-mail address, it could be anyone.

Regardless, welcome and feel free to join in anytime.   :)

yea, so she can know who's ass to bust.

couldn't help myself...

haha. see, this is what i mean about closed minded Bermudians. maybe that would be what you resort to first.. but i personally don't like the fact that "K@RM@" has commented on every forum on this site regarding the last name "Ingemann"
i have NO time to be worried about busting anyones ass, just seems to me like she has a personal problem regarding my mother, or the Ingemann family for that matter, and seeing as she is a GROWN, 40 year old woman, as she stated before, she should tell me how she feels instead of anonymously posting on this site. She has the time to check up on my facebook page all the time, so tell me how you feel there, right?

Facebook will not solve anything. I suggest you have family services and/or a councellor assist you. Posting here only reflects that you do have issues more than what you have represented here.

Why this site, and now?  We or I cannot help you and it seems you are searching for an answer. I hope you find it soon. You can always Pm me.....I have know the Ingemann family for over 40 years. Good people.

Rummy. :)

Moderators - surely (and sadly) it is time to lock this thread. It has evolved from an spirited discussion on an issue of morality into a forum for two indivuduals to air their dirty laundry. It isnt even worthy of the tank.  >:(

Agreed...unfortunately Mod's don't have the power to lock off threads.  I will bring it to the attention of the admin's.

CC

Very true Captain. I have already locked it off......thats why we have the ignore thinghy and I won't there again. Guess my taking off the glove too hands was not accepted.

A great day too all......... :)

Locking it off seems like a good idea, thanks Terrycloth.

It looks to me that the participants have had a chance to say what they wanted to, no point in letting it go from bad to worse.