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January 07, 2009, 07:18:10 PM

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76326 Posts in 4149 Topics by 859 Members Latest Member: - Shante22 Most online today: 40 - most online ever: 66 (June 14, 2007, 11:37:46 AM)

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Island Legend
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« on: October 13, 2005, 02:02:43 PM »

Comments from Sir John in today's Gazette http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051012/NEWS/110120061

He recommends modernising the pay structure of teachers with a focus on skills or competency-based pay, as in the US and Britain, to encourage a higher standard of performance in the public school system.
"We need to raise standards, prestige and compensation so that our best and brightest young people choose to enter the teaching profession, and teachers who can't meet the standards should choose to enter a less demanding line of work,"


Sounds like a plan. Seems to me that no teacher confident that they're doing a good job would need to be worried about this. Competency based - now there's groundbreaking.
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Captain Canuck
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 03:28:35 PM »

i agree...however it's good TALK...let's see if anything comes about this...well in the next five years anyway.

CC
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 04:51:24 PM »

Oh must respond! This is a bad, bad, bad idea!!

Seems to me that no teacher confident that they're doing a good job would need to be worried about this.

While I understand the reasoning behind this popular train of thought, there are so many other factors that have to be taken into consideration.
- Where is the motivation for teachers to be collaborative with one another?  An effective education system is one where the teachers share resources, ideas and expertise with each other. This way, all the students benefit and reap the rewards.  However, if you bring in skills or competency-based pay, it ends up being selfish.  Who wouldn't want to make some extra money after all?  Can't you just see teachers then keeping their wealth of knowledge to themselves?  After all, then their students will do better than the others.
- This inevitably leads to "teaching to the test".  If you know that the skills or competency-based pay is based on standardized tests, teachers would begin to teach to this test.  This would ensure that their students would do really well.  However, other important parts of the curriculum would be missed as a result.  And especially, teaching students to think for themselves.  Standardized tests are factual by nature and do not require opinions or personal interpretations. 
- Not every child/student will do well on tests and standardized tests in particular.  Exam anxiety is very common.  Imagine how much more apparent it would be if the teachers were pressuring the kids!!!  As that would determine their bonus!
- Not every child will become an A student.  That is a fact.  We all have our strengths and weaknesses.  Teachers are concerned with how far children progress under their care and how well they are learning the curriculum.  If your pay is based on skills, it is just unfair!  Especially if you end up with a class full of students who have special needs or learning disabilities.  Well, then I suppose that there would be an outcry for the segregation of those students.  And then all the work that has been done in terms of integration over the years would be lost!

You want a great education...then hire great teachers.  As has already been mentioned on this site, teachers in Bermuda do NOT necessarily have an Education degree.  Bermudians only need to have a teacher-training course to be hired.  An education degree MUST be mandatory.  Besides, Sir John made a horrible statement when he implied that education is a path chosen by weaker students.   Education programs at universities (in Canada for example) are very intensive and turn out strong teachers. 
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Captain Canuck
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 09:08:42 AM »

Sigh, the points you make are very disturbing.  I am not a part of the system here, therefore i can only make my opinions based on observation.  This is an obviously flawed way to base one's opinion, however, it's all i have.  From what you are saying, it would seem, that teachers here are very self centered and dishonest with only THEIR advancement in mind.  Now i've  taught before i came to this country, so i know what it's like to be at the head of a classroom (i taught adults so it IS different), and i can honestly say that i've never put my own agenda before the knowledge i'm trying to impart to my students.  I would shudder to think that, in this present situation, there are people (i can't use the term teachers now) that are 'teaching' the children for no other reason then a pay check.  The future of this country is in their hands, and based on your comments, they are only interested in what they can get out of it.  I would hope that they would take there roles in society A LOT more seriously, in fact i would pray for that.  I think that what Sir John was trying to convey is that in a performance based system the ones that are not up to the proper standard would get weeded out and that the competent teachers would rise.  Knowledge sharing would be a normal practice because at grass roots these are the people on the fore front of preparing the future leaders of this country.

Your points are valid, but i pray you are wrong.

CC
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 06:35:13 PM »

Eeeks, Captain Canuck! I might have gotten a little carried away in my last post!
The point that I was trying to make is that a skills or competency-based pay scheme sounds great in theory, but is not feasible in practice.  I didn't mean to give the impression that it is already happening here.  It was recently brought forth as a suggestion by Sir. John.

The irony is that all the GREAT teachers that I know are completely against this type of plan and it is the POOR ones that are for it.  Why? Because great teachers know that learning is so much more than being able to answer test questions and teaching is more than just a pay cheque to them.

BTW, I think that the way to weed out bad teachers is to have performance reviews/evaluations every year (or at least every two years).  Then rather than getting the customary raise due to experience/years served, it would be waived for that year.  Now isn't that an incentive to buckle down and start working hard?  Plus, if one was put on probation they would have to either step up to the task at hand, retire (if they are at the age) or leave for another profession. 
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2005, 04:14:53 PM »

i see what you are saying...and i like the potential solution you've brought to the table.  I wonder if there is any chance at all that the powers that be could take that into consideration.  I think you might be onto something...

CC
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 10:50:02 AM »

And then maybe fix something about the complaints procedure... http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051017/NEWS/110170135
Parents have been withdrawing their children from school because a staff member who had been suspended for hitting a child returned. The staff member has been on maternity leave and the case was never investigated. Surely that doesn't help any child or teacher?
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