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January 09, 2009, 07:25:50 PM

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76428 Posts in 4156 Topics by 861 Members Latest Member: - Gazza Most online today: 45 - most online ever: 66 (June 14, 2007, 11:37:46 AM)

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Author Topic: Canadian Show Aims To Shed Light On Rebecca Middleton death  (Read 3223 times)
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Reality
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2007, 07:25:22 PM »

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(and incidentally, none of the individuals involved - including at least one of the perpertrators were Bermudian!)

I also hope the documentary aaddresses the issues... and that Bermuda looks at some of the suggestions Smoking Gun and others have made. This would not change what happened but it would go some way I believe to preventing other parents, friends and families from going through the experience of those close to rebecca.
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2007, 07:29:09 PM »

Piglet - 6 months is a long time so yes I agree it should go to a private lab. There's a top one in Connecticut that would work just fine.

Bobo - why laugh? It probably would be considered a hate crime. As far as Becky's murder it was a heinous rape and torture of a young woman by two animals who happened to be male and black. I don't know if I would label it as a hate crime but I'd certainly say they knew they were taking advantage of a visitor and not a local.

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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2007, 07:33:46 PM »

SG,

It is my understanding that the private labs are now being used frequently to prevent another major investigative and prosecution mistake being made again.

Piglet
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2007, 07:36:16 PM »

Sensationalist story?!?! 


CC

CC,

I did not mean to take away from the horrific background of Rebecca's death. My point was that the coverage will NOT show the RCMP's part in the fiasco, just as coverage of the Natalee Hollaway murder in Aruba never shows the problems with forensics that came about as a result of the lab in Miami.

The whole investigation brought to light a plethora of deficiencies in the Bermuda Justice System, the number of which that have been addressed is small indeed.

Every time I see a young lady standing alone at the side of the road I think of what has happened in Bermuda (not just Rebecca), but also the women that was raped and murdered at the Maritime Museum (her name escapes me), and the animal that did it was a day-release from Casemates Prison.

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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2007, 09:01:51 AM »

As i've said before this particular case makes me angry...i should've taken a page out of Mike's book and just left it simple and done.  When i seen "sensationalist story" i just reacted, it by no means was directed at you.  Just the same way i'm not going to get into it with Piglet on a discussion about Canada and our laws and whether it's safer then here (cuz the FACT is there's no comparison, per capita). 

For me it's simple, we all know what happened, we all agree it's a tragedy.  So to ensure it doesn't happen again let's make sure that the laws reflect that this is what we want as a society.  Here there everywhere, no one wants this to happen to them.  Restitution for the Middletons is also needed cuz it DID happen to them.

Okay i'm done for good on this topic as i can't see any good coming out of it, and i'm not here for fights.  Got some important things coming up REAL SOON and quite frankly my time is gonna be spent more productively.

CC
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2007, 10:06:21 AM »

Just to correct what appears to be a common misconception.  The original DNA test results [the ones performed by the RCMP] came within a few days of Mundy's court appearance.  The report that came months later was done by Valerie Rao’s (Miami-Dade pathologist) —and that was the second time that DNA was tested.

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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2007, 10:40:12 AM »

Blankman,

I recall that they were not going to be available before the deal had to be taken - as you say they came after the court appearance - I remember a longer delay so it could have gone somewhere else

Piglet
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2007, 10:56:59 AM »

CC and others,

I don't really want to 'get into it either' - however I am not standing by to have a free for all, again based on second hand information!

I am sure you don't want to debate the debacle that is the Cdian judical system - by country statics there may be less murders in canada (it is not any safer!) - certianly not if you live in a city - this I know  I can compare!  'Cuz' there is also a massive under reporting of violent crime in many Cities.

I am also sure you don't want to debate the two disgraced Cdian in the recent news who engaged in child sex and how when one of them got home (fled the country trying to arrest him) to Vancouver - he was granted bail by a Cdian court over the objections of the Thai and Cambodian Governments. How could he get bail for that?

Everywhere and every system have faults – none can or ever will be perfect.

I read with some interest how this case 'angers you' and Bda is not safe (I do agree that Bda is becoming more dangerous) - why would any Cdian come to Bda as it is so unsafe? - there are many who have come since this crime - and I am glad the decided to come - I am glad they are part of Bermuda. Again an emotive reaction – not based in reality.

I don't know if you were in Bermuda before this case or after this case - but there has been a Commission of Inquiry - the points as they related to the Police and others, have been put in place - positive steps have been taken. Lessons have been learned. No one wants this to happen again ...no one...

You make reference to the money awarded by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board - what you omit to mention is that these funds are to compensate the person for their injuries and to assist their dependants - that is the law - again whilst you don't want to touch it Canada (and Provinces) do not even have such a facility to offer compensation to the victims of crime.

The award was made to try and cover legal expenses in submitting the claim - not to compensate the family for the loss of their child.  There is no Gment mechanism in existence (that I am aware of) that can offer that compensation.

Your comments such as the fact that the evidence was not processed yet and a decision made to accept a deal is the cherry on top of a big ol' shit cake.  It was bungled from top to bottom and the fact that there was an attempt to sweep it under the carpet

Are emotive and wrong - no one swept this under the carpet - the matter was taken to trial, heard by the Privy Council, A Commission of Inquiry was held, the DPP re-looked at the chance of other charges - a court action was taken to try and force this route - none of this is sweeping anything under the carpet.

Do you really think any one wanted to have this case fail? Do you think that an officer involved in this case did not give their absolute best for the victim and her family? Do you think that any one of the officers did not see their wives, daughters, sisters, friends and want to work even harder?

I can tell you that they worked on this case as hard as they could - with the honest hope it would get into the courts and there would be a successful outcome. I can tell you that they argued against taking the 'ill conceived deal' - that the very points that all our armchair detectives now raise were also raised and many points that haven't even been thought of!

I can also say that the officers who worked on this case came from many backgrounds - some local some from overseas - we don't do the term 'foreigners' - we work together. So it was never a case of 'foreigners' failing - I am not sure where that came from.

The problem I have is that the documentaries and reports - don't deal with the facts – they choose not to highlight the positive steps and that lesson have been learned – they  generally turns into a bash Bda – some truly deserved...some not....

I can tell you many of these things because I was there...and I can say that I never saw you or anyone else (except possibly KS) standing in the dark with me....not one of you...and when you think you may get emotive the subject....I am thankful that you never had to see what many of us had to see or to deal with this horrific crime.

Unlike some of you, I and others will never 'truly be done with this topic' as I live in hope that one day there will be a way to ensure that justice is served.

I and others don’t have the option of 'walking away' and 'getting on with other things' – yes we have other ‘important things to deal’ with but again ‘ they are not more important’ than this.

Not a rant just some facts… that need to be known....



Piglet - 'Mark me out of Service UFN'


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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2007, 10:59:43 AM »

Piglet,

I remember the time lag being under a week.  According to this site it was two days.

The results that didn't appear for months came from a Florida laboratory and were a second test.

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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2007, 11:14:55 AM »

Blankman,

What ever the delay - (I am not disputing what you say) I think it was longer? - it was defiantly ‘charge or release' time - hence the need for the 'deal'.

Again this is just a small part of the whole process.

Piglet
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2007, 11:57:14 AM »

Just mighy two cents because The Privy Council has ruled. Piggy brings up some very potent points and expressed in a logical way for the layman to understand. As you all know, I don't sit around for hours trying to dispell others comments. I shoot from the hip.(I was a member of the "Gun and Grog" in St. George for many years).

This is a sensitive subject because of the outcome. A sad outcome but not fruitless. As for the comments by Piggy about not being there, I support those only because of having been there. I can assure you that none of the officers tasked with taking statements or even handling evidence took the attitude that they had done enough, time for a rum.

One only has to look at the end result and draw their own conclusions and don't put blame on the investigating officers. The system failed. Lets fix it.

Regards to the Middletons. Their loss could be a Countries gain and we owe them one.

Rummy.
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2007, 03:06:02 PM »

Do you really think any one wanted to have this case fail? Do you think that an officer involved in this case did not give their absolute best for the victim and her family?
...
I can also say that the officers who worked on this case came from many backgrounds ... we work together.

We hear yah, Piglet...

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I can tell you many of these things because I was there ... standing in the dark  ... I am thankful that you never had to see what many of us had to see or to deal with this horrific crime.
Unlike some of you, I and others will never 'truly be done with this topic' ... I and others don’t have the option of 'walking away' and 'getting on with other things'

You and Rummy are in the exact same boat - some things never leave you, alas - even after many decades (in Rummy's case - also, in his case, he was also related to the victims, IIRC - certainly knew them). I can't really understand what that must be like, but best thoughts on being able to deal with it.

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'Mark me out of Service UFN'

Take it easy; go listen to some Bach (not sure if you like him), and get lost in his timeless "abstract architecture"....

Noel
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« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2007, 03:16:41 PM »

I think were all in the same boat as to quote you Jnc. It's how do deal with them.
We are not confronted with these things everyday butu when we are, we stand up and take notice. Regardless of the circumstances we all have memories of the past. To foresee the furture would be folly on my part even though I have an idea.

A great day to all
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« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2007, 03:54:31 PM »

First off let me just say that no matter what part anyone played in this case the whole situation just rocked everyone sideways. It's not unreasonable for anyone to be emotive. It's also not unreasonable to be further outraged if as a police officer one got thrown under the bus by higher ups who wanted a fast track fix. What must come out of this is that we do something to help make sure it never happens again.

Here's another simple fix to the laws that would help that happen.

"The murder case against Smith was thrown out before a jury had chance to consider it by Judge Vincent Meerabux, who said there was no case to answer. The Privy Council later criticised him for this "surprising" and "perhaps astonishing" decision, saying there was strong circumstantial evidence. Nonetheless, it ruled the decision could not be overturned and a retrial ordered because in Bermuda there is no right of appeal by the prosecution following a finding by a judge of "no case to answer" on the facts."

Add in the phrase "As of this time - there is no case to answer." And set the clock running. Then should DNA or more substantiative evidence appear within a certain time frame re-open the case and press charges.
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« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2007, 04:59:47 PM »

I imgine that many laws that made sense could now use some adjustment to allow for progress in forensic technology. Some may have already been updated but a thorough review has in some places been useful and I expect that it is worthwhile in Bermuda as well.

I don't for a moment think that the police actually doing the job would ever take this lightly and I don't envy the memories that won't ever be shaken. Generically I sometimes wonder if those higher up/further removed from the front line become more political in nature and this affects their decisions.
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