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January 09, 2009, 05:17:41 PM

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76421 Posts in 4156 Topics by 861 Members Latest Member: - Gazza Most online today: 45 - most online ever: 66 (June 14, 2007, 11:37:46 AM)

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Author Topic: Canadian Show Aims To Shed Light On Rebecca Middleton death  (Read 3220 times)
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Piglet of the Yard
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« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2008, 01:40:38 PM »

Fast Eddie,

I promised myself I would go back here..but here I am!

You mentioned 101 in policing – and I will try and follow on from that…

In all cases the basics to prove are 1) an offence in law was committed and 2) the accused committed the offence – pretty simple – so far!

The Police gather evidence – real (physical), documentary – witness accounts etc.

They are trying to establish if there is evidence to support that an offence was committed and that the accused committed the offence or that no offence was committed or that the accused did not commit the offence.

It is important (but often missed!)  to note that any police investigation have and do rightly clear people of false and vexatious allegations!

If there is sufficient evidence to raise a charge – (Prima facie evidence) then a file of the evidence is completed and forwarded for the directions and approval of the Director of Public Prosecutions – at the time of the instant case – this role was held by the then Attorney General.

It is the sole responsibility of the office of the Director of Public Prosections to lay the charges – period – the end – over and out!

Many times the Prosecutors agree with the investigation and suggested charges of the Police – many times they don’t. They can ask for the case to have more work done in certain areas, to not lay any charges or to lay charges that only seem to make sense to them and god only knows who! (No offence most (not all) of them are very solid and capable!)

There is generally a good professional working relationship between the Police and the Prosecutors. The Prosecutors have additional ‘tests’ that they apply to the case above what the police would apply!

The DPP lays the charges before the courts and the judical system kicks in….

The Police have really completed their role once the matter is in the system – sure they make sure witnesses attend, obtain any extra follow up or matters that may arise at trail – but the conduct of the case is now 100% in the hands of the DPP.

In the instant case – there was a delay in obtaining the DNA evidence from the Lab. This delay was brought to the attention of the Attorney General – the Attorney General laid the charges against Mundy and Smith – NOT the police – who as discussed cannot lay the charges in such matters – period!

Yes concerns were raised but they were dismissed and the matter entered the judical system where the collapse started!

I apologies to anyone if I have ‘botched’ this – I don’t think I have – I am trying to explain that there are clear and distinct areas of responsibilty for the Police (as the Investigators) and the DPP (as the Prosecutors).

It seems too easy to use the word Police when in fairness we should substitute the words Prosecutors and Trial Judge!

There were some deficiencies in the police investigation and evidence gathering which were correctly identified and have led to significant training of staff in the areas to strengthen the police response to violent crime.

In fairness none of the identified weaknesses were responsible for the collapse of this case at trail.

Hope this helps…sorry if it doesn’t

Piglet
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« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2008, 04:28:35 PM »

The police have learned lessons and made changes but, as you say, the AG/DPP role was the crucial one here. Are there now safeguards to change how this would be handled by them?
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« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2008, 05:08:57 PM »

I can't speak on all the possible changes to the DPPS - I do know the issue of immunity and or deals has been firmed up! With written records required etc!

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« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2008, 06:18:13 PM »

Thanks Piglet.

One for the current/former police on the site... how would you expect most police to feel about changing the double jeapoardy law? Would there be much impact from a police point of view or more for the prosecutors?
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« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2008, 07:15:23 PM »

...One for the current/former police on the site... how would you expect most police to feel about changing the double jeapoardy law? Would there be much impact from a police point of view or more for the prosecutors?

The individuals involved were never charged with rape, kidnapping, or a whole host of other things.  This has nothing to do with double jeopardy.  It has to do with an absolute F up on behalf of the AG as well as a judge that should have been removed from the bench many years earlier. 

As a parent, if it was my daughter I'm sure I could find people that would happily insure that the individuals involved would spend the rest of their lives in wheelchairs.  [As a student, I spent far much time in places where that sort of response was expected.  Ice picks are cheap and definitely cost less than a couple of tickets to Bermuda.  As a point of fact I went to university with guys who would expect to "help a friend" by making it happen.  No threats, no bragado.  That's what friends do.  Hate to say it but a lot of them would have been offended if I said no.] Sad
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« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2008, 07:41:07 AM »

Blankman,

The first part of your post is right on the money - this case was never about double jeopardy. It was about human error at many different points that caused the collapse of the case.

The second part - well I don't think that takes us anywhere - just my 2 cents- but it must have been one tough university!!... Wink....

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« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2008, 11:44:04 AM »

"It has to do with an absolute F up on behalf of the AG as well as a judge that should have been removed from the bench many years earlier."

Not everyone thought so....

RG July 13, 2006:

Attorney General Larry Mussenden last night defended the way the Bermuda justice system handled the Rebecca Middleton case.
Speaking in the Senate, he said: “The result might not have been what everybody wanted, but the system was used and the system worked.”


This is almost more embarrassing than the botched case itself, ten years on and our AG was still denying anyone did anything wrong....



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« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2008, 12:02:29 PM »

I think he was reffering to the 'double jeporady law' was he not.?
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« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2008, 12:18:25 PM »

I didn't get that, seemed he was defending the entire fiasco.

The Government Senate leader said that everyone in Bermuda was "outraged" by the Middleton murder in July 1996. "It should never have happened," he said. "But once it had happened, the criminal justice system kicked into action. The result might not have been what everyone wanted, but the system was used and the system worked."

No?

http://www.royalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?sectionId=60&articleId=7d6768e3003001f

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« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2008, 03:43:23 PM »

I have no wish to restart this thread - however, I received a fair amount of 'disbelief' and other 'comments' when I mentioned the DNA was at the RCMP lab.

In fact some posters 'doubted' me and questioned what I was saying. There was even some mention of the USA and issues about the timing of the results etc.

For the record - I always try to be accurate and fair and will not say something unless I am sure!

I have attached part of the  Statement provided by the then Commissioner of Police Mr. Coxall from RG 06 Feb, 2008.

I was not made aware of that decision and disagreed with the decision as in my opinion the investigation was far from complete. The Bermuda Police were still awaiting the DNA results from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Laboratory in Canada amongst other outstanding matters," he told the
court.


For the record.....

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« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2008, 06:54:25 PM »

Thanks Piglet.
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« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2008, 08:50:10 PM »

The second part - well I don't think that takes us anywhere - just my 2 cents- but it must have been one tough university!!... Wink....

I was a gym rat.  And the best gym in town attracted a lot of people that you probably wouldn't normally meet.  Good bunch of guys but .... 

And we'll leave it at that.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 08:53:49 PM by Blankman » Logged
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