US - 40 Years Later, LGBTs Still Second-Class Americans... [2009-06-28 NY Times]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/opinion/28rich.html

OP-ED COLUMNIST

40 Years Later, Still Second-Class Americans

By FRANK RICH

June 27, 2009

LIKE all students caught up in the civil rights and antiwar movements of the 1960s, I was riveted by the violent confrontations between the police and protestors in Selma, 1965, and Chicago, 1968. But I never heard about the several days of riots that rocked Greenwich Village after the police raided a gay bar called the Stonewall Inn in the wee hours of June 28, 1969 — 40 years ago today.

Then again, I didn’t know a single person, student or teacher, male or female, in my entire Ivy League university who was openly identified as gay. And though my friends and I were obsessed with every iteration of the era’s political tumult, we somehow missed the Stonewall story. Not hard to do, really. The Times — which would not even permit the use of the word gay until 1987 — covered the riots in tiny, bowdlerized articles, one of them but three paragraphs long, buried successively on pages 33 < http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20714FA3D5D1A7B93CBAB178DD85F4D8685F9 >, 22 < http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40E1EFA355E1B7493C2AA178DD85F4D8685F9 > and 19 < http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70B14FB355E1B7493C1A9178CD85F4D8685F9 >.

But if we had read them, would we have cared? It was typical of my generation, like others before and after, that the issue of gay civil rights wasn’t on our radar screen. Not least because gay people, fearful of harassment, violence and arrest, were often forced into the shadows. As David Carter writes in his book “Stonewall,” at the end of the 1960s homosexual sex was still illegal in every state but Illinois. It was a crime punishable by castration in seven states. No laws — federal, state or local — protected gay people from being denied jobs or housing. If a homosexual character appeared in a movie, his life ended with either murder or suicide.

The younger gay men — and scattered women — who acted up at the Stonewall on those early summer nights in 1969 had little in common with their contemporaries in the front-page political movements of the time. They often lived on the streets, having been thrown out of their blue-collar homes by their families before they finished high school. They migrated to the Village because they’d heard it was one American neighborhood where it was safe to be who they were.

Stonewall “wasn’t a 1960s student riot,” wrote one of them, Thomas Lanigan-Schmidt, in a poignant handwritten flier on display at the New York Public Library in the exhibition < http://www.nypl.org/press/releases/?article_id=288 > “1969: The Year of Gay Liberation.” They had “no nice dorms for sleeping,” “no school cafeteria for certain food” and “no affluent parents” to send checks. They had no powerful allies of any kind, no rights, no future. But they were brave. They risked their necks to prove, as Lanigan-Schmidt put it, that “the mystery of history” could happen “in the least likely of places.”

After the gay liberation movement was born at Stonewall, this strand of history advanced haltingly until the 1980s. It took AIDS and the new wave of gay activism it engendered to fully awaken many, including me, to the gay people all around them. But that tardy and still embryonic national awareness did not save the lives of those whose abridged rights made them even more vulnerable during a rampaging plague.

On Monday, President Obama will commemorate Stonewall with an East Room reception for gay leaders < http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/obama-invites-gay-rights-advocates-to-white-house/ >. Some of the invitees have been fiercely critical of what they see as his failure, thus far, to redeem his promise to be < http://washingtonindependent.com/22526/obama-im-a-fierce-advocate-for-gay-and-lesbians > a “fierce advocate” for their still unfulfilled cause. The rancor increased this month, after the Department of Justice filed a brief defending the Defense of Marriage Act < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/opinion/16tue1.html > (DOMA), the most ignominious civil rights betrayal under the last Democratic president, Bill Clinton.

The Obama White House has said that the Justice Department action was merely a bureaucratic speed bump on the way to repealing DOMA — which hardly mitigates the brief’s denigration of same-sex marriage, now legal in six states after many hard-fought battles. The White House has also asserted that its Stonewall ceremony was “long planned” — even though it sure looks like damage control. News of the event trickled out publicly only last Monday, after dozens of aggrieved, heavy-hitting gay donors dropped out of a Democratic National Committee fund-raiser < http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid93604.asp > with a top ticket of $30,400.

In conversations with gay activists on both coasts last week, I heard several theories as to why Obama has seemed alternately clumsy and foot-dragging in honoring his campaign commitments to dismantle DOMA and Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. The most charitable take had it that he was following a deliberate strategy, given his habit of pursuing his goals through long-term game plans. After all, he’s only five months into his term and must first juggle two wars, the cratered economy, health care and Iran. Some speculated that the president is fearful of crossing preachers, especially black preachers, who are adamantly opposed to same-sex marriage. Still others said that the president was tone-deaf on the issue because his inner White House circle lacks any known gay people.

But the most prevalent theory is that Obama, surrounded by Clinton White House alumni with painful memories, doesn’t want to risk gay issues upending his presidency, as they did his predecessor’s in 1993. After having promised to lift the ban on gays in the military, Clinton beat a hasty retreat into Don’t Ask once Congress and the Pentagon rebelled. This early pratfall became a lasting symbol of his chaotic management style — and a precursor to another fiasco, Hillarycare, that Obama is also working hard not to emulate.

But 2009 is not then, and if the current administration really is worried that it could repeat Clinton’s history on Don’t Ask, that’s ludicrous. Clinton failed less because of the policy’s substance than his fumbling of the politics. Even in 1992 a majority of the country (57 percent) supported an end to the military ban on gays < http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/11/magazine/gay-politics-goes-mainstream.html >. But Clinton blundered into the issue with no strategy at all and little or no advance consultation < http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/20/us/gay-rights-in-the-military-clinton-in-crossfire.html > with the Joint Chiefs and Congress. That’s never been Obama’s way.

The cultural climate is far different today, besides. Now, roughly 75 percent of Americans support an end < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/18/AR2008071802561.html > to Don’t Ask, and gay issues are no longer a third rail in American politics. Gay civil rights history is moving faster in the country, including on the once-theoretical front of same-sex marriage, than it is in Washington. If the country needs any Defense of Marriage Act at this point, it would be to defend heterosexual marriage from the right-wing “family values” trinity of Sanford, Ensign and Vitter.

But full gay citizenship is far from complete. “There’s a perception in Washington that you can throw little bits of partial equality to gay people and that gay people will be satisfied with that,” said Dustin Lance Black, the screenwriter who won an Oscar for “Milk,” last year’s movie about Harvey Milk, the pioneering gay civil rights politician of the 1970s. Such “crumbs,” Black added, cannot substitute for “full and equal rights in all matters of civil law in all 50 states.”

As anger at White House missteps boiled over this month, the president abruptly staged a ceremony to offer some crumbs < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061702578.html >. The pretext was the signing of an executive memorandum bestowing benefits to the domestic partners of federal employees. But some of those benefits were already in force, and the most important of them all, health care, was not included because it is forbidden by DOMA.

One gay leader invited to the Oval Office that day was Jennifer Chrisler of the Family Equality Council, an advocacy organization for gay families based in Massachusetts. She showed a photo of her 7-year-old twin sons, Tom and Tim, to Obama. The president cooed. “I told him they’re following in Sasha’s footsteps, entering the second grade,” she recounted to me last week. “It was a very human exchange between two parents.”

Chrisler seized the moment to appeal to the president on behalf of her boys. “The worst thing you can experience as parents is to feel your children are discriminated against,” she told him. “Imagine if you have to explain every day who your parents are and that they’re as real as every family is.” Chrisler said that she and her children “want a president who will make that go away,” adding, “I believe in his heart he wants that to happen, his political mistakes notwithstanding.”

No president possesses that magic wand, but Obama’s inaction on gay civil rights is striking. So is his utterly uncharacteristic inarticulateness. The Justice Department brief defending DOMA has spoken louder for this president than any of his own words on the subject. Chrisler noted that he has given major speeches on race, on abortion and to the Muslim world. “People are waiting for that passionate speech from him on equal rights,” she said, “and the time is now.”

Action would be even better. It’s a press cliché that “gay supporters” are disappointed with Obama, but we should all be. Gay Americans aren’t just another political special interest group. They are Americans who are actively discriminated against by federal laws. If the president is to properly honor the memory of Stonewall, he should get up to speed on what happened there 40 years ago, when courageous kids who had nothing, not even a public acknowledgment of their existence, stood up to make history happen in the least likely of places.

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A version of this article appeared in print on June 28, 2009, on page WK8 of the New York edition.

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Related:

Times Topics: Stonewall Rebellion
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/stonewall_rebellion/index.html

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Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company

Jamaica - Government senator Hyacinth Bennett would outlaw post-operative M2F gender-variant women... [2009-06-28 Jamaica Gleaner]

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20090628/news/news5.html

Block loopholes in proposed sex laws - Senator

Sunday June 28, 2009

Edmond Campbell
Senior Staff Reporter


Falconer (left) and Bennett

MEN WHO cheat on their female partners by engaging in homosexual acts should be punished under the proposed sexual offences law, according to Opposition Senator Sandrea Falconer.

At the same time, another parliamentarian is urging her colleagues to block every loophole to prevent a man who undergoes a sex change from seeking coverage under the definition of sexual intercourse in the proposed law.

In her contribution to the debate on Friday, Senator Falconer charged that she had little regard for bisexuals. "I believe that those men when found out should be eligible for prosecution under Section 4 Subsection 4 (3) (b) of this current bill," she said.

The particular section of the bill states: "Consent shall not be deemed to exist where the apparent agreement to sexual intercourse is obtained by false and fraudulent representation as to the nature of the act or the identity of the offender."

Commenting on repeat sex offenders, the Opposition senator said they should be put away for life without parole. She is also pushing for the proposed sentence of 15 years for a man who commits a sexual offence against a person with a mental disorder to be changed to life imprisonment.

Commending the move to establish a sexual-offenders registry, the senator stressed that persons who committed heinous acts against women, children and sometimes men must, after conviction, be publicly identified and shamed.


DNA database

Falconer urged the administration to set up a DNA database as a matter of urgency to identify sexual predators, who were often repeat offenders.

Meanwhile, Government Senator Hyacinth Bennett said the vagina and penis should in the bill, be stated as the natural sex organs as defined at birth.

In the proposed law, sexual intercourse means the penetration of the vagina of one person by the penis of another person.

"The sex organs should not include any surgically constructed sex organs under circumstances, such as where a person underwent a sex change," Senator Bennett said.

She argued that a man could claim to change his gender to that of a woman by having a vagina surgically constructed and then seek coverage under the definition of sexual intercourse.

Turning to marital rape, Bennett proposed an amendment to Section 5 (3) (d) of the Sexual Offences bill, which states that a husband can be deemed to have raped his wife if he knows he is suffering from a sexually transmitted infection and transmits it to his wife.

She recommended that the wording of the provision be changed to indicate that if the husband knew he was suffering from a sexually transmitted infection and wilfully or recklessly allowed or caused transmission of the infection to his wife, he should be held liable for marital rape.

"I am a woman and I am not going to be biased. Having a sexually transmitted infection is not a death sentence. Persons with such infections may, if they take the right precautions, engage in sexual activity," she acknowledged.

However, she added that the legislation could not have intended to punish a husband in the case of accidental transmission.

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© Copyright 1997-2009 Gleaner Company Ltd.

Britain - Church 'out of touch' as public supports equal rights for homosexuals... [2009-06-27 The Times]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6586450.ece

June 27, 2009

Church 'out of touch' as public supports equal rights for homosexuals

Rosemary Bennett
Social Affairs Correspondent

A revolution in attitudes towards gay men and lesbians is indicated in a poll which shows that a majority of the public want homosexuals to share identical rights to everyone else.

Just 40 years after homosexual acts were legalised, and only nine years since the age of consent was equalised, 61 per cent of the public want gay couples to be able to marry just like the rest of the population, not just have civil partnerships.

Half (49 per cent) believe that gay couples should have equal adoption rights, eight years after it became legal for them to adopt in a highly controversial move by Tony Blair.

Some Roman Catholic adoption agencies are fighting to retain the right to turn away gay couples, which they are now specifically prohibited from doing.

But perhaps the most surprising discovery is that 51 per cent of the public want children to be taught in school that gay relationships are of equal value to marriage.

The famous row over Section 28, which prevented the “promotion” of homosexuality in schools was a defining moment in the 1980s. It was only repealed in 2003. Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative leader at the time, and dozens of Tory MPs opposed it.

Overall, 68 per cent of the public back “full equal rights” for gay men and lesbians, suggesting that the Church, the final bastion of formal discrimination, is out of touch with public opinion.

Although last month the Church of Scotland upheld the election of the first openly gay minister, the Church of England is still split over the issue. No practising homosexual has been put forward as a candidate for a bishopric since Geoffrey John was proposed, then rejected, as Bishop of Reading.

Clergy can be openly gay provided they affirm to their bishop that the relationship is celibate.

However, the poll found a sizable minority think using the term “gay” as an insult is acceptable. Over a third of the public say they are happy to use the phrase “a bit gay” or have friends who use the term.

The poll, conducted by Populus, was commissioned by The Times to commemorate the Stonewall Riots 40 years ago. A series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations started on June 28, 1969, at the Stonewall Inn, in the Greenwich Village district of New York. They were triggered by a police raid on the inn, a gay bar run by the Mafia, and are considered a defining event that marked the start of the gay rights movement in the United States and Britain.

The past decade has seen a flurry of equality legislation — equalising the age of consent at 16, the introduction of civil partnerships and the right to enjoy equal provision of goods and services. Although that was intended to prevent hoteliers or holiday companies discriminating against gays, it also covered public services, so adoption agencies were forced to allow gay couples on to their books.

After a ferocious Cabinet battle, in which ministers who were practising Catholics argued that Catholic agencies should be exempt from the legislation, it was agreed that they should be given time to adjust their working practices. Most have agreed to do this, even though it has meant formally splitting from the Church and changing their fund-raising structures. Others are still battling in the courts.

Ben Summerskill, chief executive of Stonewall, the gay charity, said be believed the introduction of civil partnerships in 2005 particularly helped to shift attitudes.

“Suddenly millions of people realised gay people want to get married just like everyone else, and have slightly excitable ceremonies where aunties end up rowing, just like everyone else,” he said.

“It comes up time and time again when I meet people who have been to civil partnership ceremonies or have heard of friends or neighbours having them.”

He said that the most notable finding was the backing for teaching about homosexual relationships in schools.

“That was the most pleasant surprise from this poll. In this matter it is parents who are the ones who matter and clearly they are much more realistic about the wider world than veteran opponents of equality.

“Section 28 was always demeaning and stigmatising. Millions of sensible people clearly think so, too. I suppose parents know that since 6 per cent of the population is gay, then there is a one-in-15 chance one of their children will be too,” he said.

With all the main legal battles won, Stonewall has turned its attention to homophobic bullying.

Research conducted by the charity among teachers found that three out of four secondary school teachers, and two out of five primary school teachers, had witnessed homophobic bullying.

There have been several homophobic-inspired murders in recent years which have also alarmed the gay community.

Last year, 18-year-old Michael Causer was stabbed to death by former classmates in Liverpool.

In 2005, a gay barman, Jody Dobrowski, was punched and kicked to death on London’s Clapham Common, a known gay cruising area.

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104 comments:


Just reading the majority of anti-christian and in general anti-religious sentiment on this story reaffirms my belief that the people of Western Europe are dead. Spiritually dead, culturally dead, morally dead. Zombies you are, all and one, products of a debased, de-christanized, society.
charles martel, Moonbase Alpha, Romania


Not too long ago the Bible was used to justify slavery of blacks by whites. It was also used to treat women as the property of men.

It was only after careful study of the Bible and the fight by blacks and women for fundamental human rights that society changed. We can change again. Isn't it time?
Manju, London, England


Does the anti-darwin part of Christianity realise homophobia IS having a 'Natural Selection' effect?All 'religions' need to wake up & get w/ the program while they STILL have 'believers'!People are leaving the church in droves & a look at 'wnd.com-like' websites shows precisely why!
R.G. Frano, Jersey City, NJ, USA


The intolerance of many christians is clear on this thread. Christianity is about power and wealth for those in charge. It provides faith for those that follow. If they will not tolerate you then how christian are they? Would christ preach persecution and intolerance? Many belivers say yes, I say no
a brown, edinburgh, uk


mike preston , i think you should get an education, invest time if your intellectual capacity is up to it, understanding quantum theory. thats where the answer is not some passed down nonsence from primitive ignorants.

Grow up and get a life based on reality
Dave, Quezon city, Philippines


Personally i find any and all reference to bibles and gods insulting. Insulting to my and other like thinking peoples intelligence. I have no interest in any kind of churches bigoted brayings.
All men love other men and its about love, whether brother or father or friend or a special someone
Dave, Quezon city, Philippines


It amuses me when people cite Sodom and Gomorrah as punishment for homosexuality. It was about hospitality. The idea of said tale being linked to homosexuality arose from mistranslation and misunderstanding. Then again, sadly, most Christians are ignorant of ancient Hebrew religion and language.
Jonathan Sousa, Frostproof, USA


Alex have you even read the Bible. Homosexuality is not a new invention. Does the destruction of Sodom and Gomarah not ring a bell. Of course it written about in the bible. Though no holy book ever uses plain words.
Adeel, crewe, uk


of course gays should be able to get married. why should they get away with not having to?
Barry, woking, surrey, GB


No - you have got it the wrong way round. You are out of touch with the Church. You are also out of touch with most people globally.
Adam, London, UK


There is nothing about homosexuality in the bible because back then it didn't exist, it's a product of the last few decades! *rolls eyes*
Useless poll. You either follow the church or you don't. If they want to stick to random 2000 year old mumblings it doesn't mean you have to follow!
Alex K, Manchester, UK


Unbound hypocrisy on this board. All men and women are born equal. If you are gay, so what. No-one has the right to say they are any less of a person that others. Be who you are. I'm a married heterosexual-just don't believe in mythical beings - this causes suffering than gay people ever will
Jim, Warrington, Cheshire


There can be no such thing as becomming "ex-gay" but we can recognise that something is either moral or immoral and that is the issue. Majority acceptence is irrelevent in support of equal rights for gays therefore.
Peter, London, UK


As a 20 year old gay woman the comments on this page leave me saddened- I can no more help being gay than I can help that my skin is white, that my hair is blonde or that my eyes are green. I have no doubt that one day discrimination against gay people will be as socially unacceptable as racism.
Pippa, London, UK


"Can I suggest that you view Exodus International's website for how people have found help to get free through Jesus?"

Mike Preston, Liverpool, England


Exodus advocates becoming an EX-Gay.

Ever tried becoming an EX-Heterosexual.

Can't be done matey.
Dave North, Bridgend, UK


I am a gay man and i'm very proud of it. Myself and my partner are hoping to adopt in the near future, i feel that the world has moved on greatly in recent times and hope that the future holds yet more delights for the gay folks in the community. Love and hugs, Chay. xx
Chay Asquith-Smythe, Westminster, UK


The church should be out of step with the world as we should be dancing to a different tune!
We should be about loving homosexuals and leading them out of the darkness into the light..
Elizabeth , Motherwell, North Lanarkshire


Erm when did tolerance become blind acceptance? I tolerate homosexual behaviour and couples but i do not feel it acceptable that that behaviour be placed on a par with a heterosexual partnership legally or morally. Amazing how intolerant liberals really are!!
michael, stockton on tees, uk


Opinion Polls are a load of tosh..........I am 72 years of age and never in my life have I been asked to participate in any survey.
Maybe the reason is that I am not of the right cultural class..white and Anglo/Celtic.
Lloyd, Glan Conwy, UK


Did someone SERIOUSLY suggest Exodus International?

This is why the political elite in Brussels are so aversed to democracy and universal suffrage. There are FAR too many morons, blinker-eyed duffers and sadists about - particularly in the North.

This is leading into another prop 8 uberfarce...
Not A. Hick, In a city in the South, UK


Gays, pro-gays and anti-gays; stern God-citers and virulent God-deniers; and tired old "put a sock in it!"s like me: and all of us so sure we know what's right and what isn't, what's true and can't be true-

"In the beginning was the Word" alright - and we haven't stopped talking since!
Marc Oliver, Bouille Loretz, France


Just because society's attitudes towards homosexulaity has changed does not mean that society is right. Maybe the public is out of touch with the truth of how God views it. Can I suggest that you view Exodus International's website for how people have found help to get free through Jesus?
Mike Preston, Liverpool, England


to j.b.windmill, brierley hill, ENGLAND,
who says bring on sharia law.

I had stones thrown at me as a child for being gay, how would you like that to happen to your grand children?
Low intelligence also has something to do with intolerance as most of those posts have errors in them!

Mykl, Cardiff, UK


I suspect the reason why the majority of posts are negative is because it has touched a chord. Liberal minded people endorse equal rights for everybody, shake their heads at people with such narrow minded opinions and move on to the next story. So, shaking my head.... I move on.
Julie, Wimborne, Dorset


The lead article on yesterday's Metro was about Protestant communions subjecting gays to exorcism. This is typical of the half-assed debate on the issue. Besides tormenting harmless people, exorcism is specific to Catholicism and has no place in Protestant doctrine.
Ed, Cardiff,


Equality is king whatever your sexuality, colour or creed. Be whatever you want to be, we each only have one life, we should live it our own way, there is no right or wrong. No one should be discriminated against for being different in any way; equally everyone should have the same rights!
Michael, Sheffield, England


"Marriage is a religious thing. There have always been ceremonies; the ceremony would have been religious (even if not called Christian)."

John - I can assure you that there is nothing remotely religious about my marriage, or that of my family and friends. This is piffle.
Malcolm Armsteen, Bolton,


I really think some people here who babble on about god's word haven't bothered to read the Bible. Try Deuteronomy where the punishment for adultery is stoning and likewise for disobedient children, that is when he takes out time from genocide
Alan Lewis, Bangkok, Thailand


Is clear from reading the comments is not God who discriminate but of those arrogant and ignorant followers of God.
If one accept that God is forgiving and loves all his children regardless of their actions, belief etc than is hardly he who discriminate but those who purport to speak in his name.
Dominik Choy, london, UK


"There are lies, damned lies and statistics"

From where have these figures come?

I'm an old man who objects to the ever increasing Islamification of England, but if these figures are correct, then "Roll On Sharia Law!"

I'll be even prepared to give up drinking!
j.b.windmill, brierley hill, ENGLAND


It's not the Church's job to be in touch with public opinion about matters of equality or anything else. The idea, is that the Church is in touch with God.
William Ling, London, United Kingdom


I do not believe this result. The number of comments on this board, disagreeing with the poll, do not reflect the result either.
Homosexuals/lesbians do have the same rights, as they are part of the population. It is that they cannot marry in church. Lets change 1000 yr doctrine for a minority. NO.
Mark, Yorkshire,


OH MY GOD, please please please will someone tell me why the church doesn't believe in equal human rights, as these terrible hostile comments suggest!? The church should be proud that the marriage institution is being taken onboard by gays. We are affirming our love and devotion to one another.
Michael , London, UK


There is no God. Get over it and let people live as they want with equal rights for all.
Ian, London, United Kingdom


from The Roman Times, 27th of June 100AD - "Church out of touch as public supports throwing christians to lions"

Catholic church doctrine is not (usually), and not supposed to be, the result of a democratic process
Anthony Brown, blackpool, UK


Marriage is a religious thing. There have always been ceremonies; the ceremony would have been religious (even if not called Christian).
john, Luton, UK


The only poll that really counts is a private ballot box poll after a period of discussion, not a public face-to-face or telephone poll such as this one, particularly on issues like homosexuality. People are naturally wary of publicly disagreeing with 'liberal' diktats, in case they get persecuted.
Terry, London, UK


There is no proof of divinity, there is proof that the Bible has been considerably re written and the Catholic Church admits to doing this.There are at least 40 documented creation stories. Judgements on any issue can only be made on the basis of our inbuilt morality and not the basis of doctrine.
Keith, Rayleigh, England


I.m sorry but I am not part of that 60%. It is wrong you know it is ,we all know it is there is no hiding from that fact. You cannot force change history,marriage is between a man and women, whether we like it or not. It is to bad but this reality and nothing will ever change that reality.
joe jurkiewicz, portland, USA, maine.


It is not the Church's job to be in touch with what the public wants, but to be in touch with what it believes God wants.

Jane Smythe, Wakefield, UK


If you don't believe then why do you wish to marry since marriage is a religious thing and not acceptable according to their rules?

D Shaw, Derby, England


Marriage is not a 'God' concept. What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. People got married for 30, 00 years before 'God' reared his ugly head. I can tell you that ignorant, bigoted, hateful religiosity offends me more than same sex relationships, that's for sure!
Chris, Nottingham, UK


Let people get on with their lives as they wish with full legal rights of inheritance from legal partners. But let's not pretend that homosexuality is akin to heterosexual marriage or that children don't need a mother and a father.

And let's tolerate the intolerant.
Perry, Glengormley, NI


THE sin is not loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. Pride is a sin, selfishness is a sin, sodomy is a sin, thieving is a sin, and sexual intercourse with anyone other than one's spouse is a sin. God does not condone sin but loves us enough to give us a way to be free of all sin.
Julia Pomeroy, Denbigh, Wales


I can't imagine why anyone that's gay would want to be a member of an organisation that hates them [i.e. the Catholic, or any other, church]. To some degree I think the same about women wanting to be members. It's a bit like a black person wanting to be a member of the KKK or BNP.

Mark, Den Haag, NL


ITS ABOUT TIME!!
William kraal, Los angeles, United States
The results all depend on the questions being asked. The majority of people really don't care what someone else's sexual orientation is. They just don't want it flaunted in front of them, in much the same way that they don't want religous doctrine forced on them. Of any flavour.
Chris, Derby, UK


Marriage is a God concept. Therefore to want to get married is to accept in God. You cannot have it both ways (so to speak), you cannot accept there is a God and then deny that God exists
Paul, London, UK


I go to a liberal Anglican church and we don't think homosexuality is a sin. We had a gay priest preach recently and only a couple of older members of the congregation stayed away. I think it's weird to have a strong reaction to other people's sex lives.
Nick, London, UK


"Sin is disobedience to God,. whether it is adultery, homosexuality, sexual immorality, stealing, murdering, lusting"

Glenn, Toronto.

How dare you lump my very existance as akin to murder, stealing etc.

Dave North, Wick, UK


"Want to ban football fans also?"

Brian, Cardiff.

Now that sounds like an excellent idea,

Derek Northcote, Bridgend, UK


When outdated morons like Chris Moyles uses "Gay" as an insult, or Jonathan Ross says "get rid of him before he brings his partner home" on national radio, no wonder the utterly shocking amount of 32% of polled people do not agree that gay people should have 'full equal rights'.
Michael Angove, London, UK


I am gay, & Catholic. Like most members, i take what my concience feels from the aged male dominated "leaders" of it, as on contreception, protection.
Sexual morality, is a construct of the Church, to control property, & members. There are MANY more a % of gay men IN the C church Than outside it!
David, London, UK


If the comments here (and indeed on most other sociopolitical articles) show anything, it is that we should have one law for London and one for the rest - thusly, everyone's a winner

London can have its libertarian utopia, and the rest can feel 'safe' and 'true english' in their feudal police state
James Hatfield, Kingston, UK


As an atheist, the issue for me is equality. Homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals, no more but no less. Then let all sexual behaviour be legal, decent and respectful of others. Religions may have their own 'rules', but don't try to impose them on others. Live and let live.
David Bevir, Andover, Hampshire, England


Religion is just another form of intolerance. If you don't believe as I believe then you're not going to Heaven etc. No religion, its leaders or members, is fit to make any judgement (moral or otherwise) about anyone else. Religionists have NO right to inflict their insanity on the rest of us.
Mike of Epworth, Epworth, UK


Why do people who define themselves as "good", deriving their world view from Christian teachings, spend so much of their time pushing an agenda based on intolerance and hatred? So many of the comments here are bile-filled ignorance. If we are learning to live together in peace this is good news.
Daniel Darwin, London, UK


Daffyd, your comment is ridiculous and sadly reflective of a lot of straight people in this country. NOT ALL GAY PEOPLE GO ON PROCESSIONS AND SHOUT ABOUT THEMSELVES FROM THE ROOFTOP. I don't... but if I did so what? My goodness, some of you people are so thick and ignorant.
Dan, Portsmouth,


I am a Unitarian minister in North London (Islington and Newington Green.) My congregation and I actively support equal marriage rights for same-sex couples. The Unitarian movement in the UK and the US stand strongly in favour of GLBT equality under the law.
Andrew Pakula, London, UK


As an atheist hetero I'm ideally placed ot mediate!

Christianity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive. Any attempt to rationalise the two is ridiculous. Be religious, if you're daft enough, be homosexual if you prefer, (although enough with the marches - we get it already) - but not both.
Chris, Derby,


People might accept adoption, but what about adoption by homosexuals against the will oif the biological parents or those charged with the child's care? Disagree, I thin k - but was that question asked? Why should minorities override parental/guardianship rights?

Michael Parsons, Southport
Michael Parsons, Southport, England


I'm a bit confused about church and morality. wasn't it the Catholic church, the church that swept under the carpet, turned a blind eye, stood back and watched; the rape, beating abuse and god knows what else of literally hundreds children in Ireland. How can these inhuman monsters preach to us. x
ian, leeds,


Don't believe a word of it ! ! !

Ask a non-liberal voting area next & see what response you get !

Ex-nu-labour spin merchants finding alternative employ?
Ian , South Devon, England


What poll & when? I was never asked my opinion.
Peter, Huddersfield, Yorkshire


"heterosexuals need to hold a procession and have a hetero flag"

Nobody's stopping you; the small 1% of heterosexuals petty enough to give a damn can parade all they like, you can call it 'insecure lonely clodhopper pride'

The Christian Church should ban who it pleases; let them dig their own grav
Ignatius Meen, Richmond, UK


The poll results are encouraging. One only need look at these comments though to see how important it is that there is legal protection of equal rights. - There is no shortage of anti-gay feeling displayed here.
Richard, London, United Kingdom


The bumpkins are out in force

In case you leek-munching rubes missed the point, gays DID 'keep to themselves and shut up' about it for decades - the stonewall riots and 'gay pride' started when the state actively started to seek them out and kick the crap out of them.

What would you have done?
F.M. Luder, London, UK


Was this poll taken in private or by people asking questions on the street?

Political correctness means we all know exactly what we are 'supposed' to say, or risk being called 'homophobic'. I suspect that a private poll would have very different results.
Jeongu, Derby, UK


Going on the comments of this post, I rather doubt the poll
has any credibility. I guess they must have done the poll
in the Brighton area, I don't care about Gays or any transgender
behaviour, to be honest I am sick of hearing about minority groups. What about me, white English and forgotten
Chris, Wirral, England


"The love that dare not speak its name"
Now it won't keep its mouth shut.
Why can't homosexuals accept their acts are no longer illegal and enjoy their freedom in PRIVATE. Why must they insist on gay processions and gay flags?
Perhaps heterosexuals need to hold a procession and have a hetero flag .
Daffyd, Colwyn Bay, Wales


'Gay' is one of the versions human come in. (We also come in different colours.) The Catholic Church had better get used to it because that's life.
Shirley, London,


Am I the only one who is doubtful by the so-called "poll"? Who precisely organised it ("The Times" is unclear) and what precisely were the questions. Pollsters .........

A poll with an underlying political objective is not really a test of opinion.
Peter Sammons, Cambridge, UK


How many people were questioned, who were they, where were they, what age groups?

I don't believe these figures for one moment - totally irresponsible piece of reporting based on highly questionable statistics.
Colin, Portimão, Portugal


John Dale

You are not 'species' and there is nothing special about you.

Chosen or imposed way of life should be your private problem or pleasure.

All the rights are given to you, but you are not going to be happy until the whole country turns pink

Be gay at home, make pink church and get married
savo, london, uk


Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "gay cruising area"?.
pete m, HULL, UK


What a load of rubbish, the majority of people don,t want to know what gays do or don,t want. they just want to get on with their lives as normal people and are fed up with minorities whinging about their rights.Who you sleep with is not my concern,shut up.
pete, exeter, england


It could well be that the poll results are being (intentionally?) misinterpreted and that a more correct reading of them is that a majority of the respondents are out of touch with the Church, whose stand in any case is not on 'discrimination' but on morality.

Leonard
Leonard Livett, Bradford,


"Jesus never said a word about sex, let alone homosexuality". What rot! Jesus said: if a man looks at a woman with lust in his hear he has already committed adultery with her. Referring to marriage between a man and a woman: 'they become one flesh' and what God has joined let no man put asunder.
Sean, caridff,


Just because you were not consulted (various people commenting here) does not make the survey unrepresentative. Ditto, just because you disagree with the findings... There are no gods and whether you are gay, straight or asexual, it's love and respect that count.

Murdo, Aberdeen,


Great news!
John J, London, UK


Whilst these results are very encouraging, one only has to read much the ignorant "faith-based" drivel in these comments to know that we as a species have a long way to go yet.
John Dale, Sunderland,


Not true. There are many that are not happy with 2 men adopting a child.
Johnny Norfolk, Mileham. Norfolk,


`Sexual organs are for procreation?'. Really? Mine certainly are not,. I will not be using them for breeding-ever.
And as for God,well,I am an atheist and it does not apply to me. Keep your strictures to yourself and stop bullying others into YOUR way of life.I am Gay and happy.Get used to it.
Mike, London, UK


The simple truth is that people are not allowed to give their true opinions now for fear of being seen as anti-gay and prosecuted as such. This has nothing to do with religion, it's just a natural distaste. People, on the whole do not like homosexuality, they just have no choice but to tolerate it.
David, Hemel Hempstead, UK


The eresults of this census will depend entirely on what questions were asked and how they were phrased. The results do not tally with the general reaction of most people i have come across in a wide representation of the population before i moved to France. I still find overcamp behaviour offensive
Keith, Duras, France


Roll on complete sexual equality for everyone everywhere in the West - as long as all is by consent and children and animals remain undisturbed!
And then - when life is found to be still imperfect - can we have some peace?
There should be no Gay Priests - just good priests who happen to be gay.
Marc Oliver, Bouille Loretz, France


I'm sorry but I just do not believe these figures. I move in a wide circle, and I detect little substantial support for homosexuality, and certainly not for its widespread almost-religious proselytising. As for those silly comments about get rid of religion, get real. Want to ban football fans also?
Brian Smith, Cardiff,


Word of God? What God? Whose God? The Christian God, the Moslem God, The Jewish God, The Roman gods, The Ancient Egyptian gods? Oh dear I am so confused. No I am not - there is no god and never has been. What we have had are various clerical bodies who through the ages have controlled their fellows.
Allan Green, Westcliff, England


Sexual organs are for procreation; that's in the inner Voice of Conscience. For all our sakes we need to heed it; there's no deep respect without living by this.
Father Bryan Storey, t, UK


Marriage is a covenant (agreement) union in God. Outside of this all unions are not what God intended for his design. We do so at our own peril, ball's in your court.

This does not mean we do not love each other, irrespective of sexual orientation.
Sylvia, London,


Why does this issue have to referred back to followers of a 2000(ish) year old book? Can't we work it out for ourselves, with our own contemporary values, now? Put the fairy tales away and start thinking for tomorrow, or else we are doomed to petty infighting as Earth travels through the universe.
Andy, Liverpool, UK


Homosexuals should have equal rights. I should not even be up for discussion.
But, on the same hand , I don't care about your sexuality.
So don't go waving it in my face. Goes for hetros as well.
Morton, Praha, Czech Rep.


Children arrive at school in dishevelled states,looking for an argument and are disruptive.They are from very unsettled homes where the lifestyles of Mum and Dad leave a lot to be desired - the dysfunctional family. Kids brought up by a homosexual couple will most likely be the same,better or worse.
Rodney S. Barker, Gainsborough, England U.K.


"Church out of touch". With whom or what? Public opinion? So what? The church has never reflected public opinion and would not be a church if it did.

The church needs to be in touch with God. Governments need to be in touch with voters.

'Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's...'
Roddy Campbell, Christchurch, New Zealand


It's time to get rid of religion it is a load of rubbish that belongs to the world of Stone Age man and the ramblings of so called prophets.
It is the cause of wars, death, torture and honour killings etc..
God has still not been able to grow a new foot and never will cos he or she does not exist.
Carl Teper, Chicago, USA


As the report says, the church--and her fearful, self-righteous adherents--is "the final bastion of formal discrimination." How sad and wrong is that? Jesus never said a word about sex, let alone homosexuality. Yet these people make their life mission of persecuting gay people. Such wasted lives.
John Andriote, Connecticut, United States


Andy of Plymouth, you need to learn a bit about the mathematics of sampling and confidence limits. Sampling 10000 people will give you an extremely high confidence estimate of the true value of the percentage of the population as a whole (so long as the sample selection method is not biased).
David McGregor, Fitzroy, VIC, Australia


Sin is disobedience to God,. whether it is adultery, homosexuality, sexual immorality, stealing, murdering, lusting etc. Scripture is very clear. All have sinned and no opinion poll changes that. The NB question is how do you become right with God. That according to Scripture is through Jesus Christ
Glen, Toronto,


According to the last cenus carried out in 2001 St helens is the most Christian town in the United Kingdom - yet they have a gay night there now. maybe things are changing - but i doubt it.
Peter, Dawmat Al Jandal, Saudi Arabia


The English people have abandoned their God.

"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened [...] Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts." (Rom. 1:26-27)

"Woe!" Luke 17:1
George H., London,


I'm sorry but when exactly did we have this referendum, ..... asking 1000 or even 10000 people is NOT a reliable indicator of public opinion. I'm afraid, like it or not that Glen is correct. Even if public opinion does say this that does not make it right.
Andy, Plymouth,


No, Glen. Church docrine isn't based on the Word of God, but the Church's interpretation of the Word of God. There is a distinction.
Barry, Sydney,


It has never been the business of the Christian Church to be 'in touch with public opinion'. The Old Testament prophets were persecuted by public opinion; Christ Himself was crucified by public opinion. It is the same today.
Gilbert McAdam, Antipolo, The Philippines


Church doctrine is not based on opinion polls or on changing cultural norms but on the Word of God. Whether you believe it or not
Glen, Toronto,

--

Copyright 2009 Times Newspapers Ltd.

Britain - Sex swap op on NHS is up 300%... [2009-06-29 The Sun]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2505190/Sex-swap-op-on-NHS-is-up-300.html

Sex swap op on NHS is up 300%

£10m sex-change bill ... NHS

By DAVID WOODING
Whitehall Editor

2009-06-29

SEX-change operations on the NHS have TREBLED over the past decade, official figures revealed yesterday.

More than 1,000 people have gone under the knife since 1999 — costing taxpayers up to £10million.

As well as the op, transsexuals often also need costly hormone replacement and psychotherapy on the health service.

The procedure must be given free to all who ask for it after a court ruling ten years ago.

Before that time, those wanting the operation had to fight for special dispensation before the NHS would cover costs.

Figures show that in the last year before sex changes became automatically free, 49 people had the op on the NHS in England and Wales.

But last year, that number had risen to 137, according to the latest statistics. Since 2005, between 135 and 145 people have had the surgery each year.

Critics argue the operations divert scarce resources from patients dying because of healthcare rationing.

But the Health Department insisted the ops are vital.

A spokesman said: “When individuals are denied treatment, psychological distress and depression are common and suicides have been reported.”

Experts estimate that at least 150 other Brits have sex-change operations privately each year.

Bernard Reed, of the Gender Identity Research and Education Society, said: “Gender confirmation surgery is absolutely essential.

“It is an innate condition. People who are born with this condition have no choice.”

-

d.wooding@the-sun.co.uk

--

© 2008 News Group Newspapers Ltd.

Britain - Lord Mandelson tops Independent on Sunday Pink List 2009... [2009-06-29 PinkNews]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12996.html

Lord Mandelson tops Pink List 2009

By Staff Writer
PinkNews.co.uk

June 29, 2009

The Independent on Sunday published its list of the most influential gay people in Britain yesterday, with First Secretary of State Lord Mandelson leading the pack.

Polymath Stephen Fry is at number two, actor Sir Ian McKellen is number three, historian Dr David Starkey is at number four and pop singer Beth Ditto is number five.

Other senior politicians listed include Culture Secretary Ben Bradshaw at number eight and Nick Boles, the Conservative party's Head of Implementation at number 10.

Many names appeared earlier this year on PinkNews.co.uk's list of the most influential gay, lesbian and bisexual politicians, such as Ray Collins, General Secretary of the Labour party, and Janet Paraskeva, the First Civil Service Commissioner.

This is the tenth year the Independent on Sunday has produced the Pink List, which can be viewed here
< http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/the-iiosi-pink-list-2009-1721869.html?action=Popup&ino=1 >.

END

US - President Obama Speaks At Gay [LGBT] Pride Event At White House... [2009-06-29 YouTube (MSNBC)]

<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xP1QieeGmGo" width="425px" height="350px" AllowScriptAccess="never" quality="high" wmode="transparent" /><noembed><a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xP1QieeGmGo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/xP1QieeGmGo</a>

Britain - Stress in the womb can last a lifetime, say researchers behind new exhibit... [2009-06-30 PhysOrg]

http://www.physorg.com/news165564870.html

Health

Stress in the womb can last a lifetime, say researchers behind new exhibit

June 30th, 2009

Visitors can see how their stress levels could affect the heart rate of their unborn baby and find out why pregnant women should reduce their anxiety, at a new exhibit at the Royal Society Summer Science Exhibition, which opens today.

The researchers behind the exhibit, from Imperial College London, hope that it will raise families' awareness of the importance of reducing levels of stress and anxiety < http://www.physorg.com/tags/anxiety/ > in expectant mothers < http://www.physorg.com/tags/mothers/ >. They say that reducing stress during pregnancy could help prevent thousands of children from developing emotional and behavioural problems < http://www.physorg.com/tags/behavioural+problems/ >.

Visitors to the Exhibition will have the chance to play a game that shows how a mother's stress can increase the heart rate of her unborn baby. They will also be able to touch a real placenta, encased safely in plastic. The placenta is crucial for fetal development and it usually protects the unborn baby from the stress hormone cortisol < http://www.physorg.com/tags/cortisol/ >. However, when the mother is stressed, the placenta becomes less protective and the mother's cortisol may have an effect on the fetus.

The Imperial researchers' work has shown that maternal stress and anxiety can alter the development of the baby's brain. This in turn can result in a greater risk of emotional problems such as anxiety or depression, behavioural problems such as Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder < http://www.physorg.com/tags/attention+deficit+hyperactivity+disorder/ >, and being considerably slower at learning. Some studies have even suggested that it may increase the likelihood of later violent or criminal behaviour. Their findings have suggested that the effects of stress during pregnancy can last many years, including into adolescence.

Professor Vivette Glover, the lead researcher behind the exhibit from the Institute of Reproductive and Developmental Biology at Imperial College London, said: "We all know that if a mother smokes or drinks a lot of alcohol while pregnant it can affect her fetus. Our work has shown that other more subtle factors, such as her emotional state, can also have long-term effects on her child. We hope our exhibit will demonstrate in a fun way why we all need to look after expectant mothers' emotional wellbeing.

"Our research shows that stress due to the mother's relationship with her partner can be particularly damaging. We want fathers visiting our exhibit to see how they can help with the development of their child even before the birth, by helping their partner to stay happy," added Professor Glover.

The researchers say that the stress < http://www.physorg.com/tags/stress/ > hormone cortisol may be one way in which the fetus is affected by the mother's anxiety during pregnancy. Usually the placenta protects the unborn baby from the mother's cortisol, by producing an enzyme that breaks the hormone down. When the mother is very stressed, this enzyme works less well and lets her cortisol through the placenta. By studying the amount of cortisol in the amniotic fluid, the Imperial researchers' latest study suggests that the higher the level of cortisol in the womb, the lower the toddler's cognitive development or "baby IQ" at 18 months.

Kieran O'Donnell from the Institute of Reproductive and Developmental Biology at Imperial College London said: "We are very excited to have this opportunity to talk with the public about our work. We think that by promoting awareness of this subject we may be able to benefit many families in the future."

-

Source: Imperial College London (news  http://www.physorg.com/partners/imperial-college-london/ : web http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/ )

--

© PhysOrg.com 2003-2009

US - Maine Human Rights Commission rules in favor of M2F gender-variant child... [2009-07-01 Bangor Daily News]

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/109732.html
   
Wednesday, July 01, 2009

State rules in favor of young transgender   

By Abigail Curtis
BDN Staff

AUGUSTA, Maine — The Maine Human Rights Commission ruled Monday that the Orono School Department discriminated against a transgender child by denying her access to the girls bathroom.

While the school department’s lawyer warned that schools around the state may not be ready to manage the practical fallout from the decision, civil liberties advocates hailed the ruling as an advancement of human rights.

“This ruling is a huge step forward for a vulnerable population that is entitled to the full protection of the law,” said Zachary Heiden, legal director of the Maine Civil Liberties Union. “There will always be voices who claim we’re not ready, we’re not there yet, the time to end discrimination is next year, or next session. But victims of discrimination should not have to wait.”

The attorney for the child and her parents said his clients are very happy with the outcome of their complaint.

“At the very heart of it is the issue of basic human dignity and fundamental civil liberties,” said Eric Mehnert. “It was a good decision.”

But Melissa Hewey, attorney for the Orono School Department, said the ruling was “a huge leap.”

“I’m not sure that it takes into account practicalities that face educators around the state,” she said. “You can understand [the ruling] intellectually. You can agree with it intellectually. But practice is sometimes different — and I think that’s what may have escaped some people in this case.”

The discrimination in question first occurred in October 2007 when the child was in the fifth grade at Asa Adams School. Until then, she was allowed to use the girls’ bathroom, although she was biologically male. But that fall, the transgender child was followed into the girls room by a male student who had “previously started to harass her by stalking her and calling her ‘faggot,’” according to the Maine Human Rights Commission investigator’s report.

After the second such episode, the boy was suspended and removed from the transgender child’s class. At that point, school officials told the transgender child that she had to use a single-stall faculty bathroom at the other end of the school, and that was when her parents decided to take the matter to the Maine Human Rights Commission.

Paul Melanson, grandfather of the boy accused of harassing the transgender student, also filed a complaint with the Maine Human Rights Commission, saying that not allowing his grandson to use the girls bathroom or the faculty bathroom as the other child did was a violation of his grandson’s right to public accommodation under the Maine Human Rights Act. Melanson had given his grandson permission to use the girls bathroom as long as the transgender student was doing so, according to the report.

Enough is enough, an irate Melanson said Monday of the commission’s ruling.

“It ticks me right off that you’re letting a kid run the whole system,” he said.

Melanson is now trying to inspire Maine moms to protest the decision, which he thinks is wrong — and unfair to both boys and girls.

“Little boys do not belong in the little girls room, and vice versa,” he said. “This isn’t just about my kid. A lot of children have come up to me and said that this isn’t right.”

On Monday, the commission found that Asa Adams School did not unlawfully discriminate against Melanson’s grandson “because of his sexual orientation,” which is a heterosexual male.

“Minor Student 2 was disciplined because his biological sex is male and his gender identity is male and he used the girls’ bathroom,” the investigator’s report said.

Hewey said the commission made the right decision in this case.

“You can hope that most people won’t use their children as pawns to make political statements,” she said.

Patricia Ryan, executive director of the Maine Human Rights Commission, said this decision is among the first to involve schools, sexual orientation provision, gender identity and the issues of bathroom use. She said schools in Maine likely will want to take a look at it.

It was the commission’s second ruling in two months on transgender people and public restroom use. On May 18, the commission found that a transgender woman was discriminated against at a Denny’s restaurant in Auburn when management would not let her use the ladies room until she had sex reassignment surgery.

“Every time you get new jurisdiction, the first decisions that are made are always new,” Ryan said. “They’re always in areas in which the courts have not had the opportunities to develop case law.”

According to Mehnert, his clients wanted to bring the case in part because the parents’ previously “wonderful” relationship with school officials over their child’s public accommodation had broken down.

“The message that was sent from the superintendent said that it is OK to segregate this child, it is OK to ostracize this child,” Mehnert said. “I think [the parents’] biggest challenge is their fear — it’s a very real fear — that the Orono school system has told them that they don’t think they can protect the child.”

Because the child started identifying as a girl at a very young age, the parents had worked with school officials to have a plan for “reasonable accommodation,” Mehnert said. But when the fifth-grade incidents happened, the school moved to resolve the situation with “no interactive conversation,” he said.

Hewey said school officials had the child’s interests in mind.

“Not only did they provide accommodation, a separate bathroom, that was the bathroom that the student’s health care practitioner recommended,” she said.

Mehnert said his clients had hoped to look at the fifth-grade incidents as an opportunity for education rather than a problem.

“They felt that the school could be a leader in what everyone sees as a very complex issue, and they were rebuffed,” he said.

The Maine Human Rights Commission is the state agency charged with the responsibility of enforcing Maine’s anti-discrimination laws. It attempts to resolve complaints of discrimination to the mutual satisfaction of those who are involved, according to its Web site < http://www.state.me.us/mhrc/ >.

Related Stories:

Panel backs transgender woman in restroom case
http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/106487.html


Related Links:

Maine Human Rights Commission
http://www.state.me.us/mhrc/

-

Comments:

On 06/30/09 at 9:51 PM, TracyMcHatten wrote:
What a crock. So the girls are to share the bathroom with a boy that isn't even old enough to know what transgender even means. This State is a total disgrace. When will the majority ever have to stop bowing to the lunatic fringe minority? Glad my kids are grown.


On 06/30/09 at 9:58 PM, karenlite wrote:
Stop discrimination! It hurts.


On 06/30/09 at 10:13 PM, Kevin_of_Bangor wrote:
TracyMcHatten how do you know this child is not old enough to understand what transgender means?
It seems pretty clear from the article that this child knew from a very early age that it was transgender and being it is a subject you have no clue about you are just assuming that a child is to young to understand the meaning when a child is not. A child can learn a great deal at an early age and they can understand very complex issues such as being transgender. You seem to be very closed minded in your thinking TracyMcHatten.
Paul Melanson, You are an idiot old timer stuck in your ways. I'm willing to bet he is homophobic and sadly he most likely is teaching his Grandson to become homophobic as well. As for his stupid comment that a kid is running the show. A kid is not. Adults made this decision and he is not happy with their decision. Paul Melanson should take a very long hard look in the mirror but sadly he never will.


On 06/30/09 at 10:15 PM, chersully2000 wrote:
I don't think this grandfather is really teaching his grandson the right lessons.....in sort of using him as a pawn , whether that was his intention or not. I do not believe he has taught his grandson anything good at all. Perhaps he could have made his point of view about this in another way if he felt so strongly about it....but not dragged his young grandson further into it.


On 06/30/09 at 10:18 PM, outlaw wrote:
well there ya go its official ,what ever was left of gov sanity just went out the window,id pull my kid out of that school so fast,thank god mine are grown up.peace


On 06/30/09 at 10:19 PM, chersully2000 wrote:
Adults teach children so many things....and hate or intolerance should not be something they model or teach.
And, also....and this pertains to another comment on another BDN article. People should be able express their opinions on the BDN comments pages without being called names. If one has to stoop to that.....then who has the issue?


On 06/30/09 at 10:38 PM, watergal wrote:
Has this kid gone through Surgery yet? Is he going to have it done? Go all the way if that's how he feels.


On 06/30/09 at 10:40 PM, alces247 wrote:
Transgender? One is either a male or a female. I'm glad I'm not a child having to grow up in this sick enviroment.


On 06/30/09 at 10:45 PM, cm1113 wrote:
It is real simple kids if you have a penis you are a man. If not you are a girl. You cant be both. So go to the appropriate bathroom.


On 06/30/09 at 10:48 PM, TracyMcHatten wrote:
WHAT PART OF "HE" DON"T YOU LIBERAL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND? HE was born male. "HIS" grandfather sued. Stop discrimination it hurts? THAT'S PART OF LIFE. (Before my comments get repeated thumbs down, may I remind you that there is not a surer way for them to be read.)


On 06/30/09 at 10:52 PM, alces247 wrote:
As Jackie Mason says " you can't be a table and a chair,you're one or the other."


On 06/30/09 at 11:08 PM, chersully2000 wrote:
The parents of the transgender child filed a discrimination complaint.....then a complaint was filed by the grandfather of the boy who harassed the transgender child. TracyMcHatten: Do you have your facts correct.....it does not sound like it.


On 06/30/09 at 11:16 PM, Kevin_of_Bangor wrote:
Again, TracyMcHatten. Explain to me how you know in such detail how a child cannot know they are transgender. Explain to me in detail how you are an expert in transgender people. Explain to me that just because someone is born male or female they don't feel they fit in the body that where born into.
I'm far from a LIBERAL as you stated. I own firearms, I wish all states had the death penalty but I'm also for a woman’s right for abortion and I'd love to see that homosexuals and lesbians can marry. I'm not a liberal nor am I a conservative. I am an independent and I enjoy being one.
You TracyMcHatten should sit down in real life with a transgender person and talk to them to see how they feel. To find out what they go through, how hard things are for them and how confused they are but you never will. You are stuck in your ways and you won't change because you have no desire to which is sad.
Open your mind, do some research and maybe you will one day realize that transgender people are no different than you or I. They where just born the wrong sex.


On 06/30/09 at 11:36 PM, fireblodgett wrote:
This state is going straight down the toilet. Boys in the boys room and girls in the girls room.....period.


On 06/30/09 at 11:39 PM, Studog wrote:
Way to punish an entire population who are not comfortable with having MALES in the FEMALE's restroom. 1 person's "comfort" trumps everyone else. What has this state come to?


On 06/30/09 at 11:39 PM, TracyMcHatten wrote:
Kevinof Bangor, when I grew up just twenty or so years ago, this story would have not even been printed. I ashamed to live in this State, ashamed of the morals of the people nowdays, and ashamed of YOU! THER IS NO WAY IN HELL THIS KID IS BEHIND THIS LAWSUIT! I am NOT an expert an expert in transgender people THANK GOD! PERVERTED BEHAVIOR IS PERVERTED BEHAVIOR! Sounds to me like a non- Christian conservative like me struck anerve with you. CONFUSED is the KEY word about confused transgendered people. BORN WITH A PENIS = MALE. What part of that don't you, an enlightened progressive tolerant person, do not understand???


On 06/30/09 at 11:53 PM, Elizabethann wrote:
I would pull my kids out of school. That is ridiculous. I knew it would come to this. Everyone should pull their kids out. Parents have so little control of what the kids have to deal with when they are in school but this takes the cake. It won't take long for some teenage guy with a little imagination to say well today I feel like a girl. I'm going into the girls locker room and there is really legally nothing anyone can do to stop him. Sounds like chaos to me. And a free meal ticket for some.


On 07/01/09 at 12:04 AM, Kevin_of_Bangor wrote:
So move out of the State of Maine then TracyMcHatten. I would welcome that your ignorant presence is no longer around.
Can you show facts that the child had no influence in the lawsuit? Seems his parents where very supportive of it and I'm sure they discussed it with him before moving it forward. The child could have simply no but I doubt that was the case. I could be wrong but I doubt I am.
I'm also wondering how you are a non christian but you stated thank god. That reads very christian to someone such as me. You are just a very ignorant person with a much closed mind. You refuse to look at facts and accept a truth that is different than your own beliefs.
Maine has enough ignorant people and you are more than welcomed to move away.


On 07/01/09 at 12:07 AM, EJParsons wrote:
Just another story that proves just how screwed up we're getting in this country. Just another nail in the American coffin. And just one more reason we have "Don't ask, don't tell" in the military. Congress wouldn't allot the military enough money to build all of the different bathroom and sleeping facilities to make every confused person happy.
If God made you a man, be a man. If God made you a woman, be a woman. God didn't make you gay, transgender, bi or any other orientation. Don't mess with what God made. He won't be very happy with you.


On 07/01/09 at 12:31 AM, Kevin_of_Bangor wrote:
EJParsons you don't realize that some of us are atheist and don't believe in any sort of god. Everyone is born an atheist. You are taught religion; you are not born with it. You are not born with a god, you are taught there is a god so you can take your god talk and shove it.
You where taught there was an Easter bunny, a Santa as well as a tooth fairy and you believed it until you became older and realized none of them where real but sadly you still believe in an invisible sky wizard because you where taught and the key word is taught there is one.
No god made me. My mother and father made me. I popped out of my mom’s vagina and I was born. Sadly I was forced to go to church. I had no choice. Sadly I was told there was a god and devil, again I had no choice. It was forced upon me. I was never given the choice as a child to say no or make up my own mind.
This child who is male understands something that neither I nor you cannot even start to phantom. It found it is a female trapped in a male’s body. It has a penis but does not desire it. It wishes to be a woman and it should have that right to become one. The amount of ignorance that some of you show is amazing because your bible teaches you that he was born male he must remain male.
Just remember this. One single man named Constantine decided your path. I decided my own.
Born an atheist and will die an atheist.


On 07/01/09 at 12:39 AM, justmehere wrote:
TracyMcHatten,Alces247, CM1113 and plenty of others, you might want to rethink your comments. Having a penis does not make you male and having a vagina does not make you female. Aside from the poor transgendered souls born into the wrong body (which may yet be shown to be genetic in origin), it is also medically possible to be born one sex yet be another genetically. One can have all the female equipment including a vagina (but no uterus or ovaries), yet be genetically male with XY chromosomes. It is called complete androgen insensitivity. The child is genetically programmed to be male, yet certain receptors in the body don't respond to the male hormones. There are other similar disorders that fall all along a spectrum. There are also true transexuals that are born with both sets of gear.
Those are scientific FACTS, not just your knee-jerk reactions. Read up on them, perhaps a bit of knowledge will make you a touch more understanding of others, though I doubt it.
And, much like Kevin, don't even go down the "liberal road". I'm a crotch scratching, gun totin, Chevy truck driving redneck. I just happen to have a brain and try to use it.


On 07/01/09 at 12:43 AM, chersully2000 wrote:
Sometimes things go "awry" in biology.....or let's say differently. We are not all carbon copies of anything. People are not all born the same. Some babies are born perfectly physically healthy....some are not. There are differences.....but the things that make us human, and caring human beings....those things are not changed by biology or whether we are heteosexual , homosexual,etc.


On 07/01/09 at 12:52 AM, chersully2000 wrote:
To clarify: I was not implying that someone transgender is not physically healthy.....my point was, that there are differences (caused by physiology, hormones,etc.) It is undeniable that there are some differences in people's physiology from the start.....and was just using as an example that one baby might be born without any real health problems, and another might not have that same start. There are variances in so many areas. (apparently some children are born with autism or at least the propensity for it.) Not comparing autism to someone being transgender....of course not. Just saying people are born differently.....not everyone is the same. There are differences in biology. justmehere is right........there are scientific facts, whether wants to ignore them or not.


On 07/01/09 at 1:31 AM, border wrote: Click here to view hidden comment


On 07/01/09 at 5:25 AM, 4equalrights wrote:
Chersully2000, Kevin_of Bangor, justmehere well said. For the others, try be supportive of this child who will have so many people against her.


On 07/01/09 at 5:44 AM, johnnycakemtn wrote:
Transgender? What the hell is that


On 07/01/09 at 5:57 AM, sabre1973 wrote:
Please explain to me what the school did wrong. They provided a unisex bathroom, the only mistake was it was labeled "faculty". What about the little girls rights to privacy and the assumption that people of the same physical attributes will be sharing their bathroom. What is the sexual preference of a transgender, anyway?


On 07/01/09 at 6:13 AM, karenlite wrote:
Each person deserves to be respected for who they are, in this case the transgender child was understood by her parents and teachers and was given the right to use the girls bathroom until the hate and bullying started. You must for a moment take your blinders off to understand the special needs that people have. Be slow to criticize and take the time to educate yourself.


On 07/01/09 at 6:20 AM, Lobstarok wrote:
First came gay marriage...


On 07/01/09 at 6:26 AM, karenlite wrote:
That's a good thing...


On 07/01/09 at 6:31 AM, freedomfighter wrote:
What a sick world we live in. This kid needs help and he's not getting it from his parents.


On 07/01/09 at 6:32 AM, mcbell wrote:
I for one don't want my daughter going into the same bathroom at school with a male. A girls bathroom is no place for a child who was born a male, no matter what the he thinks he is. What has happened to the morals of this country? I think the school was correct when they offered a bathroom that was not the girls bathroom for a male. If the boy ........... wants to have a sex change that's fine but the girls
bathroom is no place for him. I don't need to educate myself on any thing and don't consider what I'm say to be discrimination, it's common sense not to let a male use the girls bathroom.

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