Scotland - M2F gender-variant grandparent Diane Neil (nee David Neil) will undergo GRS 2010-03-11… [2010-03-10 Ayrshire Post]

http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrshire-news/2010/03/10/ayrshire-grandad-to-undergo-sex-change-102545-26004291/

Ayrshire Grandad To Undergo Sex Change

Mar 10 2010

By Carla Callaghan

A GRANDAD will undergo major surgery this week to become a woman.


Diane Neil

David Neil will finally become Diane in more than just name after the five hour operation. The 46-year-old Ayr dad-of three revealed the heartache and devastation the dramatic decision has caused.

But she insists that there’s no going back after years of living a lie. And this story is far from unique in Ayrshire, where 20 men have had gender transition treatment in the past five years.

As a youngster, troubled David always knew there was something different about him. Growing up in Coylton, David was always trying to prove himself as more of a boy.

He played rugby and football and was the first to sort out any of his 15 siblings’ battles in the village. By the time he was a teenager, David had gained a reputation as a bit of a hard man.

When he was 15, he watched a programme about a man who believed he was trapped in the wrong body (gender dysphoria), and the penny dropped.

But David tried to dismiss it and went on to live a relatively normal life, marrying at the age of 21 and having three children. The landscape gardener spent years  trying to forget about gender dysphoria.

Diane explained: “I used to wear a biker jacket and pretend I was some big macho rocker, but I was living a lie and rebelling against it.

“The older I got the worse the feeling got. Depression, anxiety and stress set in.

“The mental disorder it was getting me into was just horrendous. I ended up admitting I had to give in to this. I thought ‘if I don’t deal with this it’s going to destroy me.’”

David confided in his wife, who was initially supportive. He attended counselling at a specialist clinic in Glasgow in 2005 and started hormone treatment in May 2006.

Diane said: “I think my wife wanted to keep it a secret, she wanted to keep the family unit together. But looking back, that probably couldn't have happened.”

In May last year, David decided to start living as Diane in the outside world. But it was a decision that rocked the family and Diane has since lost contact with many of them.

She continued: “It's breaking my heart. I was going to take my son out on Halloween and I've got his Christmas presents in the wardrobe.

“I ended up in the Ailsa Hospital for three weeks over this. I'm totally, utterly heartbroken. “I have one or two friends who have been very supportive but most of them have gradually drifted away.

“My sisters and brothers have mostly been the same. Only four of my siblings and my mum speak to me.”

But Diane has been surprised by the reaction she’s had from people on the street.

She added: “I've been back to Coylton. I felt that people would have painted a picture of me as a big guy wearing a miniskirt and fish net stockings with hair spurting out here, there and everywhere. Outside have been lovely.”

And Diane says she has no regrets about becoming a woman.

She explained: “Part of being big, tough David gave me the strength to be Diane in later life. “When I get dressed in the morning and I look in the in the mirror I absolutely love who is looking back.

“That's the first time I've felt like that in my whole life.

“I'm not doing anyone any harm. I'm only trying to be happy in my own skin. I am a good parent to my children. I absolutely adore them.”

As well as trying to come to terms with the issues in her life, Diane has been preparing for the climax of her gender transition. She will undergo a five hour operation today (Thursday) to reconstruct her male genitals to female.

Afterwards, Diane will spend eight days in a Brighton hospital and a year recovering.

She said: “There can be major complications and I’m scared. This is when I have needed my family the most.

“Hopefully after the gender reassignment surgery, my life will be a bit more settled and a lot calmer.

“I hope the future holds happiness for me. I'm only trying to make peace in my life. “I want to get back in touch with my children and for my brothers and sisters to see common sense and realise I'm not doing anyone any harm.

“After this operation, my journey has ended. I've arrived and the rest of my life begins.”

-

For help and support on this issue, please visit http://www.mind.org.uk/help/diagnoses_and_conditions/gender_dysphoria
or visit http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx

--

© 2010 owned by or licensed to Scottish & Universal Newspapers Limited.

US - Gwendolyn Ann Smith: "Can't you take a joke?" [2010-03-11 B.A.R. (Transmissions)]

http://ebar.com/columns/column.php?sec=transmissions

Can't you take a joke?

Transmissions

03/11/2010

by Gwendolyn Ann Smith


Illustration: Christine Smith

On a recent visit to the San Francisco Bay Area, popular comedian Dave Chappelle decided to try his hand at some trans and gay themed jokes. While a transcript was unavailable, notes from a Facebook posting by out lesbian Bobbi Lopez, who said she attended the show with her girlfriend, and from a staff member at the venue, reconstruct things as so.

Lopez's Facebook post was also picked up last week by the http://www.SFist.com blog.

Chappelle's joke was about being approached by a "man in San Francisco with 'titty balls,'" whatever those are. He talked about being uncomfortable around a "man with titties," and donned a stereotypically effeminate voice. He spoke of reacting angrily when this person asked him to lunch, and worried about "US Weekly catching us together."

In her note, Lopez said that she grew angry, and heckled Chappelle. His response was to say Lopez had "real titties."

Lopez, who works in the Tenderloin and said she became upset, has called for a boycott of Chappelle and a dialogue with the staff at the New Parish Music Hall in Oakland, where the show took place.

"I want some action," she wrote in her post.

I always find myself of two minds when situations like this come up. Chappelle makes his living from offensive humor, and while much of it has been at his own expense, it has not been limited to such. He is, essentially, an "all access offender."

There is a long history of this in comedy, with decades of comedians willing to say whatever it takes to get a laugh. I think back to Lenny Bruce's "Masked Man," who lusts after "unnatural relations" with Tonto, or old Don Rickles's bits built entirely around offending any and all. The late Richard Pryor was no stranger to this, nor is Eddie Murphy. The late George Carlin wasn't either.

So if a comedian is willing to take on all comers, then why should it be okay to laugh along when other groups are skewered, but not your own?

When, for example, The Daily Show makes a transphobic joke, should I feel okay about excusing it because, well, Jon Stewart and company will make fun of just about everyone, including themselves?

When David Letterman's announcer, Alan Kalter, runs off stage in mock horror because recent Obama appointee Amanda Simpson "used to be a dude," should we sit back and let it go because this is simply the sort of off-color humor one expects from Letterman on a nightly basis?

Likewise, when Keith Olbermann on MSNBC makes jokes about Ann Coulter's gender identity, should I give him a pass because of any other group he might make fun of?

I don't know.

More than a decade ago, Norm MacDonald, during his stint hosting "Weekend Update" on Saturday Night Live , made a very unfunny joke about the Brandon Teena murder, "In Nebraska, a man was sentenced for killing a female cross dresser [sic] who had accused him of rape, and two of her friends. Excuse me if this sounds harsh, but in my mind, they all deserved to die." Har har. There was no question that this was wildly inappropriate and definitely not funny.

This is also a far cry from Chappelle being uncomfortable with a transperson in San Francisco, however.

Take the basic premises of his "joke." Someone different who made him uncomfortable stopped him on the street, and he did not like it. In this case, it was a transperson, and apparently one with the old-fashioned gay "lisp," because he was talking about San Francisco, and we know all about them, do we not?

So let's say I make the same joke about being uncomfortable when a Latina approaches me in East L.A. or the Mission District of San Francisco, or elsewhere with a large Hispanic population. Or how about me being uncomfortable – even hostile – when an African American man approaches me in Harlem or Compton. Suddenly, it doesn't feel funny. It feels uncomfortable at best, racist at worst. I know it does for me.

When I was a kid, "Polack jokes" were all the rage. People made light of the Polish military ordering septic tanks and so on. Indeed, to call someone this was essentially the same usage that "gay" has now in elementary and high schools: a synonym for "dumb."

By that time Irish jokes, Jewish Jokes, Italian jokes, jokes about African Americans and Asians, and other ethnicities were on the way out, reserved for closed-door jests and admonishments to "not share this" outside of those same closed doors. Sadly, I suspect that many of these jokes still make the rounds.

Nevertheless, the Polack joke went as out of fashion as a leisure suit.

What I recall about these times was that some were up in arms about the loss of these jokes. Indeed, some argued, they made fun of all ethnicities, so how could they be in trouble for telling a Polish joke?

That's what I feel is going on when we give Chappelle or anyone a pass because he was perfectly funny when he made fun of people that weren't us. He does have some funny, insightful, and relevant things to say – but when he falls into base transphobia, it seems perfectly right to call him on it.

This discomfort, this anger he expresses simply over a transgender person asking him to dinner, is the same sort of thing that the killers of transgender people claim when they go in front of the judge. This is the "transgender panic" defense with a laugh track.

Yet this wasn't about his discomfort, really. This was about someone he felt was a freak, so decidedly different that they deserved to be mocked.

Therein lies the difference. While it's fine to offend, push boundaries, and otherwise try to be edgy, it is simply not cool to do it at the expense of others who can and will be hurt by this. It's fine to make a joke, but when the jokes turn to scorn and contempt, the laughing is over.

-

Gwen Smith really does have a sense of humor, somewhere. You can find her online at www.gwensmith.com.

--

© 2005 - 2007, Bay Area Reporter, a division of Benro Enterprises, Inc.

Bermuda - Gay cruise ship plans a three day visit to Bermuda in June… [2010-03-12 Royal Gazette]

http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7da362b30030010&sectionId=60

Friday, March 12, 2010

Gay cruise ship plans a visit to Bermuda

By Ruth O'Kelly-Lynch

A gay cruise ship is due to swing by Bermuda in June.

Pied Piper Travel, which has been organising gay groups on luxury cruise ships since 1990, is planning a trip on Celebrity Summit from New Jersey this summer.

The ship will depart the US on May 30 and arrive in Bermuda on June 2. It will stay at King's Wharf in St. George's for three days.

The company advertisement for the trip said: "Experience the pink beaches, fancy shops, fine dining and great historic sites. Bermuda is uniquely different from the Caribbean.

"Since Bermuda is 600 miles off the coast of North Carolina, it is much more comfortable and temperate. Join us on this gay group cruise to civilised Bermuda with its distinct British style." The trip includes welcome cocktails, private group excursions and outdoor midnight parties at sea.

The last time a gay cruise ship tried to come to the Island former Faith Based Tourism head Andre Curtis lead a vocal group of conservative Christians in protest of the trip.

At the time he said: "We may just choose to pick them [the passengers] up by bus and bus them to our church, to different denominations, and have the pastors pray for them."

The company owned by internationally famous talk show host Rosie O'Donnell cancelled their 2007 visit, citing concerns that it would be met by protests from the Island's churches. Instead they went to Halifax.

The cancellation made waves in the gay community around the world with many websites calling the Island homophobic.

Premier Ewart Brown, who is Minister of Tourism, said at the time: "Bermuda is a democracy that welcomes all people of all races, colours, creeds and sexual orientation."

He tried calling the company asking them not to pull out. When they stood fast, he said he understood and respected their decision, although it saddened him.

-

Related stories:

Gay cruise controversy puts Bermuda in international spotlight
http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d74c3330030013&sectionId=60

Gay community questions awarding of tourism contract to Curtis
http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d77bc330030001&sectionId=60

Tourism fears over gay cruise stand-off
http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d73fa330030002&sectionId=60

Rosie tells TV audience about Bermuda’s gay cruise outcry
http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d74ccf30030000&sectionId=60

Rethink opposition to gay cruise, churches urged
http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d73f2f30030006&sectionId=60

--

©2010 The Royal Gazette Ltd.

US - 'I am a boy' insists 7-year-old F2M gender-variant child born a girl… [2010-03-14 News-Journal]

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/local/east-volusia/2010/03/14/i-am-a-boy-insists-child-born-a-girl.html

'I am a boy' insists child born a girl

By EILEEN ZAFFIRO
STAFF WRITER

March 14, 2010

DAYTONA BEACH -- There's a wiry little 7-year-old in Deltona who can name an impressive number of Major League baseball players, NFL bruisers and NBA stars.

The second-grader also loves reading astronomy books and watching "Jeopardy," and is a political junkie particularly smitten with President Obama.

Maybe it was the burden of lugging around a weighty secret from the age of 3 or 4 that sparked the early maturity.

The child is a girl biologically, but wants nothing to do with anything female.

"He doesn't say 'I want to be a boy;' he says 'I am a boy,' " explained the youngster's mother, who wants to remain anonymous to protect her child's identity.

After years of battling over hairdos and clothes, puzzling over why the child preferred bugs over Barbie dolls, and snuggling up for heart-to-heart talks to understand what was going on, the mother of four and her husband have concluded their second-youngest child is transgender.

They've been raising him as their son since August.

The words her, she, girl and daughter are words they no longer want anyone using for their bespectacled tyke, and The News-Journal is honoring their wishes.

The child's 33-year-old mother and 44-year-old father don't think it's just a phase that will pass. They believe being transgender is for keeps, and explains what their child has been trying to tell them.

Transgender is a closeted topic that has only recently started to lose some of its taboo taint. Not everyone agrees it even exists.

Some experts suspect mental or physical problems explain the deviation. Some of those experts even think parents are just indulging bizarre behavior.

Others believe the unshakeable sense of being male or female is hardwired into everyone's brain at birth, and not even body parts that don't match can change that.

The Deltona couple see their 7-year-old as walking, talking proof that some people just don't fit traditional gender roles.

Since kindergarten, the child has been pleading to be their son. By the time he was 5, he was already dreading having periods and getting pregnant.

"I'm very certain he knew early on," his mother said.

They've cut his dark blond hair short. They shop for his clothes in the boy's department. They've enrolled him in Cub Scouts.

His best friend is a boy, and he has a major crush on a little girl. He's happier than they've ever seen him.


SCHOOL STRUGGLES

The couple have accepted who their child is, and they wish some people at the child's Deltona elementary school would, too. They claim one school office worker insists on using "her" in front of other students, although a school spokeswoman said the employee just accidentally slipped a time or two.

They say all school records still list his former feminine name despite their request for a change. Last year, his teacher would cross out the new name he uses on his schoolwork, his mother said.

A few weeks ago, she said a substitute teacher used his former name "in front of the whole class."

The couple cite several examples of children arguing with their son over whether he's a boy or girl. One day back in October after school, they say a group of third-graders waiting outside for parents and bus drivers to pick them up formed a circle around their son and kept insisting he was a girl.

They understand the kids are probably confused since many of them knew their son as a girl in kindergarten and first grade at the same school.

But they have little tolerance for adults' reactions.

"The kids are kids. I look to adults to set the tone," the child's mother said. "That's not OK if you disrespect my child ... How do we expect the kids to change when adults don't? I'm not telling people to accept it, but respect it."

She said the school turned down her offer to have an Arizona woman who runs a non-profit, educational agency focused on transgender issues talk to staff.

She and her husband are working with a local American Civil Liberties Union official in hopes of convincing the Volusia County school system to add gender identity to the district's bullying and harassment policies. The policies already list sexual orientation, but the parents say that has nothing to do with gender identity.


DEFINING TRANSGENDER

Transgender doesn't always equal homosexuality or bisexuality, experts say. They say transgender covers a broad spectrum of gender identity and sexual expression.

Included in that bell curve can be extremely masculine women who like sports, car engines and hunting, and very effeminate men enthralled with ballet, crocheting and cooking who both still desire the opposite sex.

"Transgender is basically someone who feels they are the opposite sex," DeLand psychologist Don Sanz said. "It doesn't have to do with sexual orientation. It's just who they feel they are.

"It could be a man physically who feels female and is attracted to women."

The therapist the Deltona child has been seeing said she can't discuss him. Sanz has never met the child, but he has had other transgender patients, and he's skeptical of anyone drawing conclusions at such a young age.

"I couldn't call a 7-year-old transgender," Sanz said. "I'd be really reluctant to lay a label on a 7-year-old."

A 22-year-old who was an Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University student until last year disagrees with Sanz's conclusion. The former ERAU student is male biologically, but said he's always felt female.

"It's not uncommon to know as early as age 3," said the man, who didn't want to be named because he's afraid it could cost him his job in the Orlando area. "I never felt comfortable with the body I was born with."

When he was little, his older sister and her friends would dress him up in girl's clothes and put makeup on him.

"It made me feel who I was supposed to be," he said. "It's not a psychological condition. We're not sexual deviants."

He calls his male physical characteristics a birth defect. In the next few years he'd like to have a sex-change operation, which he refers to as sexual reassignment surgery. He's already on hormone therapy, and he's been living as a woman the past few months.

"It feels more natural than ever before," he said. "I felt I was cross-dressing as a man."

He wishes he could have made the full transition in grade school.

Within the next few years, the Deltona child's parents will have to decide whether they want to try puberty blockers, drugs that suspend development. Eventually they'll have to decide if they want to pursue hormone therapy and surgery.

"I don't want him to have a period," his mother said.


BATTLE BREWING

For now, they're focused on him being more comfortable in school.

The 7-year-old's principal, teacher and various other school officials who come in contact with him were all informed of the situation last summer, school district spokeswoman Nancy Wait said.

Wait said steps were taken to help the child with his transition, such as allowing him to use a one-person bathroom. Similar adjustments have been made in the past for other transgender children in the district, she said.

But there are no plans to change any harassment or bullying policies, Wait said.

"The school system believes the way it's written is based on federal regulations and state statutes, and it covers all our students," said Wait, the only school official who agreed to comment on the situation.

"We reviewed the policies of districts that have incorporated gender identity into their language, all of which were in their bullying policies," she said. "Upon review, we believe gender identity does not need to be spelled out in Volusia's bullying policy because our policy prohibits the bullying or harassment of any student, regardless of the reason."

She noted kids do face consequences already for bullying, and can even be expelled.

"We have 62,000 students, and a very low number we're aware of are transgender," Wait said. "We're dealing with it on an individual basis. That seems to be working."

Some people who've dealt with transgender issues in schools say that case by case approach invites trouble. Staff and students need specific gender identity education and policies, they argue.

"It leaves a loophole if you don't have a policy," said Stratton Pollitzer, deputy director of Equality Florida, a statewide education and advocacy organization dedicated to eliminating discrimination and harassment based on sexual orientation, race, gender identity and class.

"There needs to be a little bite behind a parent's complaint in school policy," agreed George Griffin, president of the ACLU's Volusia/Flagler chapter.

Griffin complimented Volusia County for being one of 18 school districts in Florida that have sexual orientation written into their policies. But he'd like to see them join the 14 that also include gender identity.

Pollitzer said a lot of the policies were adopted after a state law passed in 2008 required schools to protect gay and transgender kids from bullying.

Without both specific training and policies, teachers won't know what to look for or how to react to harassment, said Pollitzer, who lives in Miami.

"Transgender kids are the most likely to be attacked physically," Pollitzer said.

That's the worst fear of the 7-year-old's parents. They say their son won't tell them when something happens at school, so they feel they have to get involved.


TOUGH DECISIONS

"I'm not trying to pound my chest or change laws," the boy's father said. "I just want my kids to be OK."

Switching schools could give their child a new start, but they don't want to try that.

"I don't want to teach my kids to run," his mother said."And everyone likes him at his school. He has a lot of relationships there."

If private conversations don't achieve the results they're looking for, they'll have to decide if they're willing to lose their cloak of anonymity and go before the School Board. That's an option they're strongly considering.

"My fear is they're just going to push it under the rug," his mother said.

Ultimately, they say they just want their child to be happy.

A few years ago, they thought their son was introverted. Now they think he was probably confused and depressed.

"He never really played girl games," his dad said. "He was always the father in make believe."

Two years ago, he wanted a boy's bathing suit with no top. At restaurants, he always wanted to use the men's restroom.

It took a few years to put the pieces together and accept what was happening.

Doctors did discover a few things out of the ordinary, including very high testosterone levels and a chromosome that detached and reattached upside down. But the child's parents said physicians concluded neither of those things could make a girl want to be a boy.

"Trust me, it was hard for me saying 'him,' " the father said. "I'm as traditional as they come.

"I was hoping it was just a phase. In the back of my head, I thought 'maybe this is just a tomboy.' But he'd be so unhappy as a girl."

They saw the pained look on the child's face when he glimpsed the feminine name he used to go by on his report card. They know he can't stand looking at an old picture in their house taken when he still had long hair.

"Whatever I feel doesn't matter," his mother said. "All that matters is he's happy."

The parents hope eventually everyone can see past their child's gender identity to get a closer look at the things that make him special.

"He has the biggest heart. He's so caring," his mother said.

"He seems more mature than his age," his father said. "He's very empathetic to pain. He's so loving."

They hope the day comes soon when he can blend in with other kids, and the only things they'll want to talk to him about are sports, video games and astronauts.

-

eileen.zaffiro @news-jrnl.com

--

© 2010 The Daytona Beach News-Journal

US - Archbishop Desmond Tutu Speaks Out for Gay Rights… [2010-03-14 Boston Edge]

http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=103426

Desmond Tutu Speaks Out for Gay Rights

by William Kapfer
EDGE Contributor

Sunday Mar 14, 2010


The author with Tut and his wife in Manhattan     

"Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people are part of so many families. They are part of the human family. They are part of God’s family. And of course they are part of the African family."

So writes famed anti-apartheid activist and Nobel Peace Prize recipient, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, in a Friday, March 12, op-ed piece < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/11/AR2010031103341_pf.html > in the Washington Post.

"No one chooses to be gay," he notes. "Sexual orientation, like skin color, is another feature of our diversity as a human family. Isn’t it amazing that we are all made in God’s image, and yet there is so much diversity among his people? Does God love his dark - or his light-skinned children less? The brave more than the timid? And does any of us know the mind of God so well that we can decide for him who is included, and who is excluded, from the circle of his love?"

I had the good fortune to spend time with this extraordinary human-rights activist and cleric. At 78, the archbishop who was instrumental in dismantling apartheid in South Africa, shows no signs of slowing down.

The Very Rev. Robert V. Taylor< http://www.robertvtaylor.com/ >, also a South African Episcopal cleric and social-justice activist, introduced me to Tutu. The famed anti-apartheid activist was in Manhattan last week with his wife of 55 years, Nomalizo Leah Shenxane, and their daughter, Reverend Mpho Tutu, to discuss his latest book, Made for Goodness.

The Archbishop wrote the book with his daughter to proclaim to the world that mankind is fundamentally good-that there’s a scientific basis for the belief that humans are good at their core.

Tutu explained that, though we sometimes act out of depravity and despair, we do know in our heart of hearts that we are not as we were meant to be, and were created to be so much more. The truth of human goodness can get hidden under the fear that we cannot live up to its demands, or it can get buried under faults or failures, or it can just get forgotten.

The Archbishop told ABC’s Robin Roberts < http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/video/archbishop-desmond-tutu-made-goodness-10060587 > during a recent interview on Good Morning American that" joy and goodness can be found anywhere, if we would only look for it."

A good deal of Tutu’s Post piece was decrying the horrific state of affairs for gay men, lesbians and transpersons on the African continent. Although gay rights is enshrined in the South African constitution and a South African recently made news when he won the Mr. Gay World pageant < http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=102310 >, that nation has had its troubles.

As reported here< http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=96776 >, some defendants accused of gang raping a lesbian were given what some said were overly lenient sentences. There have been other instances of lesbians being raped to "cure" them of their sexuality.

Nevertheless, South Africa is a beacon compared to the rest of the continent, where LGBT citizens are at best harassed, at worst beaten, imprisoned, tortured and even murdered.

The nation that has attracted the most attention, however, is Uganda. That northern African nation may well pass < http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=102857 > a bill that mandates death to practicing homosexuals. Egged on by American Protestant Evangelical activists, the Legislature has been besieged by protests from other nations.

Tutu calls this and more discriminatory legislation being debated in the tiny central African nations of Rwanda and Burundi "terrible backward steps for human rights in Africa."

He points out that this discrimination only fosters the spread of AIDS, which has cut a particularly lethal swathe through Africa since it broke out of the Congo sometime in the 1960s or early 1970s, "They are living in hiding," he writes in the Washington Post, "away from care, away from the protection the state should offer to every citizen and away from health care in the AIDS era, when all of us, especially Africans, need access to essential HIV services."

It particularly irks Tutu that fellow Protestant clergy are behind much of this activity: "’"But they are sinners,’ I can hear the preachers and politicians say. ’They are choosing a life of sin for which they must be punished.’ My scientist and medical friends have shared with me a reality that so many gay people have confirmed, I now know it in my heart to be true. No one chooses to be gay."

In an extraordinary passage he actually cites the variety of sexual orientations as a wonderful example of the diversity that God has instituted among mankind. He compares it - favorably - to racial diversity.

"Does God love his dark- or his light-skinned children less?" he asks. "And does any of us know the mind of God so well that we can decide for him who is included, and who is excluded, from the circle of his love?"

This isn’t the first time Tutu has stuck his neck out for LGBT Africans. In 2008, he condemned LGBT persecution < http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=72907 > and apologized on behalf of the Anglican Communion for ostracizing LGBT parishioners.

--

© 2003-2010 EDGE Publications, Inc.

Australia - Postoperative M2F gender-variant Norris May-Welby is not a man or a woman on Australian Recognised Details Certificate… [2010-03-15 The Sun]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2892376/Scottish-born-Australian-is-officially-neither-a-man-or-a-woman.html

Monday, 15 March 2010

I’m not a man... or a woman

By KENNY ANGOVE


No sex ... Norrie May-Welby

A SCOT has become the first person in the world officially declared as neither a MAN or a WOMAN.

Norrie May-Welby has been registered on a birth certificate as sex "Not Specified".

Paisley-born Norrie, 48, had a sex change operation 20 years ago after emigrating to Australia as a child.

But Norrie wasn't happy as a woman and stopped taking female hormones to become a "neuter".

Doctors admitted they were unable to determine whether Norrie is male or female.

Now Norrie is thought to be the first gender non-specific person in the world.

Last night Norrie, who lives in Sydney, said: "The concepts of man or woman just don't fit me.

"Stating my sex as male or female makes the statement false, which is not acceptable for legal identity documentation."

Aussie officials eventually allowed Norrie's sex to be categorised as not specified on a Recognised Details Certificate - a 'birth certificate' for immigrants who want their sex change recorded.

Norrie added: "The simplest solution was not to have any sex identification on my legal documentation.

"I asked the New South Wales government to issue me a certificate that didn't state my sex.

"After supplying the authorities with medical documentation that told me it couldn't be done, they took some time to consider the matter and issued me a certificate stating my sex as 'not specified'."

And Norrie - a member of lobby group Sex and Gender Education - has started using it to change other documents.

Norrie said: "I went to a bank and the woman's eyes light up when she saw the certificate. She said it was a good option."

The legal landmark was welcomed by the UK's Gender Trust, which said it didn't know of anyone else who'd successfully requested a genderless birth document.

Spokesman Rory Smith said: "It is unusual, but there are many people here who like the idea of being genderless and will welcome this."

A General Register Office for Scotland spokesman added: "There is no provision in UK law for a birth certificate to display no gender."

-

kennyangove@the-sun.co.uk

--

© News Group Newspapers Ltd.

Britain - Single Equality Act - Trans people still miss out on equality… [2010-03-15 The Guardian]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/15/trans-people-equality-act-amendment

Comment is free

Trans people still miss out on equality
Without an amendment to the Single Equality Act, many of us will continue to live in fear and discomfort

Natasha Curson
guardian.co.uk,   Monday 15 March 2010 11.30 GMT

In 2006 my employer circulated a staff questionnaire on diversity. Struggling with my gender identity, I found the courage to complete it and declare that no, I did not feel able to present at work in my preferred gender. But so terrified was I of the possibility of exposure that I put the completed survey in a postbox so that it would arrive from outside the campus and nothing, short of fingerprinting, could connect it to me.

Two years later I began to transition < http://www.tsfaq.info/ > and the protections of the Gender Recognition Act < http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/ukpga_20040007_en_1 > folded around me. My employer suddenly had obligations to treat me fairly and to protect my privacy. In fact, it has done much more than the minimum – transition at work has been a hugely positive experience for me. Job done, you might say, but I still remember the frightened person I was, and I know that there are many others in similar positions, and not all employers are so understanding. The real problem with the current legislation, about to be rolled into the Single Equality Act< http:/www.unitetheunion.com/resources/equalities/equalities_resources/the_single_equality_act.aspx >, is that it requires individuals to be certain about their situation and to fall into categories that the law feels happy to define.

Transgenderism < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender > is a spectrum condition. It may, or may not, be linked to intersex conditions, which sometimes show clear physical evidence of gender variation. Causality is unclear, but it is evident that it affects people in a variety of ways, and people's responses to being trans are much more varied than the law allows for. The Gender Recognition Act built on earlier legislation to provide better employment conditions and an obligation to respect an individual's privacy. It does not depend on surgery as "proof", an important change that recognizes the requirement to live in the preferred gender role to gain access to treatment, and also that not everyone who seeks to make a permanent role change will want surgery. The problem is that the Act assumes certainty. Back in 2006 I had not yet accepted my need to transition, so I was not protected. Any expression of my gender variance felt incredibly risky, so much so that I operated a self- and family-imposed exclusion zone on myself, and would travel 120 miles to London before I dared put on a skirt.

The fear – of exposure, of loss of job or family, of ridicule – was one factor that maintained my closeted status, a painful state that I lived with for decades. Arguably the lack of protection for those uncertain about their gender helped keep me in that state for longer than would otherwise have been the case. I found my answer, but the problem is that the law insists that in order to offer you protection you must be clear about who you are, and that "who" must fall into certain categories.

Some people may not need to transition, or at least not permanently. They may, for their own comfort and wellbeing, wish to present as a different gender on an occasional basis, partly or fully. That may be a prelude to determining a sense of self that leads to transition, or it may not. Trans people need to be able to determine their own path, but the pressures to conform are so huge that it is hard to be able to explore our sense of self publicly. Instead we restrict ourselves to ghettos made up of support groups, a handful of nightclubs and specialist services that offer a chance (particularly for trans women) to dress and experiment with makeup. These organisations do good work, but we are still in ghettos, because society says we should be.

If you were to decide, for your own comfort and wellbeing, that you wanted to present at work as one gender two days a week, and another for the rest of the week, the law does not provide for you, and only the most enlightened of employers are likely to support you. But why shouldn't someone be able to do that, if they feel comfortable enough with themselves to want to be visible? If the individual is happier and feels supported they will be a better employee, so why should that be a problem? What about school or college students?

Imagine yourself as a 10-year-old with a growing sense of uncertainty about your gender, deeply aware of the playground taunts you might face if you let slip the truth, and so having to hide your true self completely. I don't have to imagine it – I lived it. Trans people are also the last minority it's OK to ridicule, because many people think it's about clothes, and that (particularly) men dressed as women will look ridiculous. It's so embedded in our culture that gender tourists such as David Walliams < http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/feb/22/interview-david-walliams > can make good money out of demeaning us. That makes it harder for us to speak with one voice, particularly as we are smaller than the gay community.

Trans individuals and organisations have lobbied MPs and peers to debate an amendment to the Equality Act. We failed in the Commons and in the Lords, so the legislation is likely to go through as it is. The government has done a lot for us – the Gender Recognition Act has improved things for a significant part of our community. But the principle of equality of treatment is still applied unevenly to the trans community. Because of this many of us live in fear and discomfort for much of our lives. This situation needs to end.

-

Comments:

samuelpalin
15 Mar 2010, 11:39AM

f you were to decide, for your own comfort and wellbeing, that you wanted to present at work as one gender two days a week, and another for the rest of the week

I'm struggling to understand why on earth anyone would want to do this. Either you are comfortable with presenting as your target (non-biological) gender, or you aren't.

.....


yepandthattoo
15 Mar 2010, 11:42AM

If I read the definition of "trans" correctly, this means how you feel yourself? This is fine but it doesn't define the rest of the human race which may encompass all traits apart from the use of the word "trans" as a description.

As you describe it. People are discriminated for using words in a certain way rather than being physically different.

Transgenderism is a spectrum condition. It may, or may not, be linked to intersex conditions, which sometimes show clear physical evidence of gender variation. Causality is unclear, but it is evident that it affects people in a variety of ways, and people's responses to being trans are much more varied than the law allows for. The Gender Recognition Act built on earlier legislation to provide better employment conditions and an obligation to respect an individual's privacy. It does not depend on surgery as "proof", an important change that recognizes the requirement to live in the preferred gender role to gain access to treatment, and also that not everyone who seeks to make a permanent role change will want surgery. The problem is that the Act assumes certainty. Back in 2006 I had not yet accepted my need to transition, so I was not protected. Any expression of my gender variance felt incredibly risky, so much so that I operated a self- and family-imposed exclusion zone on myself, and would travel 120 miles to London before I dared put on a skirt.

If the affects of words are having an effect on life, that's not great.

The "Gender Recognition Act" as it sounds, indeed, depends on recognition, quite often of the ignorant.

.....

zounds
15 Mar 2010, 11:43AM

samuelpalin

I thought she explained this pretty clearly.
It's not up to us to understand others reasoning on issues like this anyway. The fact is the trans-folk have workplace rights and as long as our personal behaviour doesn't impede our professionalism then it's not a problem.

This is an issue of workplace rights as much as it is an issue of identity. Whether we understand or not is neither here nor there.

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1988040319
15 Mar 2010, 11:45AM

Agreed. Trans people fall in to the mysterious gap between supposedly enlightened ideas about gender and the murky past, before the gender recognition act was passed. Gender is still seen as a binary issue - either you are male or female, even if you decide to change - but this isn't supported by the social evidence of people transitioning, passing, changing / developing over time, nor by biology; by definition, as mammals, we are all female. Males are altered females. The result of that is what seems to be two different sexes. In fact, our bodies express some part of that spectrum. The sooner people get this in to their heads, the better, though I fear it will be some time; the gay community is aesthetically pleasing and trans people are often lumped in with that. In fact, transgenderism / transsexuality comprise a different aesthetic, one which I doubt will gain mainstream support without serious backing from the media / government.

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hermionegingold
15 Mar 2010, 11:45AM

very illuminating essay natasha. i can't pretend to understand the dilemma you have faced throughout your life but this article explains more about the issue than most. best of luck in your right to be the person you have to be.

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kizbot
15 Mar 2010, 11:47AM

Yep sam... zounds is right.. You don't need to understand why someone would want to do that.. It isn't the issue.

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MeinHerzBrent
15 Mar 2010, 11:52AM

What exactly is the issue here, Natasha?

You have a right-on employer that does diversity surveys and would presumably be delighted to tick another box, so to speak.

deeply aware of the playground taunts you might face if you let slip the truth

One of my workmates is a Sikh, and was abused once on the train by a bunch of feral yoof for wearing a turban. You won't do anything to change the opinion of some idiots, but you can react to them as you choose.

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zounds
15 Mar 2010, 11:52AM

the gay community is aesthetically pleasing

You've obviously not met me and my shower of fugly homos....

I think you raise an interesting point though- I think that one reason homosexuals achieved certain bourgeois rights is because they stopped presenting themselves as a criminal class and started presenting themselves as a market. The repercussions of such a tactic seem to get more and more pronounced in many ways. I'm not sure this is a road that is open to the transgendered, for all sorts of reasons- age, family, 'aesthetics' (sad thought but likely true) income and class etc.

It might be that it remains a political struggle- and as such, especially due to the numbers and inherent prejudice against the transgendered, it might take a hell of a lot longer than the bourgeois gay-rights campaign.

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goldmine
15 Mar 2010, 11:54AM

I used to work with a pre-op Trans called David or at least he was called David when he joined the company.

One day, he began to wear make-up, wig and women?s clothing and demanded to be called Susie.

Everyone called him Susie as requested and all seemed well for a few months until he went off work with stress, citing that both his employers and peers were making his life unbearable. His / her eventual case for unfair dismissal failed.

Rightly or wrong, a large man with hairy tattooed arms, a gruff voice, an ill fitting wig, clothing and badly applied make-up is going to draw attention to themselves, especially in a professional environment.

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PhilippaB
15 Mar 2010, 11:56AM


Sam - maybe the point is that it is not necessary to understand why people identify as x, y or z, but simply that they do identify as x, y, or z, and that while the current legislation is presumably a welcome attempt to recognise that, it sets 'x, y or z' too rigidly, and therefore there are still people who fall outside its protection.

It's reassuring to hear from Natasha that her experience in the workplace has been "a hugely positive experience", and this is a very interesting and illuminating article. As zounds says, "this is an issue of workplace rights as much as it is an issue of identity", and as ever this will be a two-fold battle - setting standards for how people are treated in the workplace / accessing services, but also sharing experiences that challenge orthodoxy of thinking - the legal issues relate to the former, and articles like Natasha's will help to address the latter.

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VoxAC30
15 Mar 2010, 11:58AM

If you timeshare between appearing male and female at work, no amount of legislation is going to stop your workmates finding you strange.

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peterbracken
15 Mar 2010, 11:58AM

I think the author has to understand that there are limits to people's empathy.

Whichever way you slice it, adopting a male identity one day and a female identity the next would constitute very odd behaviour, and expecting others (work colleagues or school mates, for example) to deal with it is naive.

One or the other is obviously fine, but flip-flopping between the two would surely be an indulgence too far.

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JimPress
15 Mar 2010, 11:59AM

I was in total agreement until you said "Trans people are also the last minority it's OK to ridicule". You must have tunnel vision if you're unaware that all kinds of people are subjected to routine ridicule through no fault of their own. Your plea would have a whole lot more strength and dignity if you didn't feel the need to diminish the problems of others in the process - it's not a competition of victimhood.

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kizbot
15 Mar 2010, 12:00PM

Rightly or wrong, a large man with hairy tattooed arms, a gruff voice, an ill fitting wig, clothing and badly applied make-up is going to draw attention to themselves, especially in a professional environment.

Yeah but why? Why is it ok to give attention to people simply because they do not conform to the stereotypes or archetypes you have in your head? And there are quite a few women with hairy arms, tattoos and gruff voices, anyways.. Would you think it ok for a woman who wasn't trans to be s****ed / stared at? I don't... whether the woman is trans or not.

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samuelpalin
15 Mar 2010, 12:03PM

I thought she explained this pretty clearly.
It's not up to us to understand others reasoning on issues like this anyway. The fact is the trans-folk have workplace rights and as long as our personal behaviour doesn't impede our professionalism then it's not a problem.

I really don't think she explained this clearly. Most of the article was about the fear of 'coming out' (I realise that's not a brilliant phrase in this context) and revealing one's gender identity. Which is all well and good - that's a real problem.

The middle paragraph:

Some people may not need to transition, or at least not permanently. They may, for their own comfort and wellbeing, wish to present as a different gender on an occasional basis, partly or fully. That may be a prelude to determining a sense of self that leads to transition, or it may not. Trans people need to be able to determine their own path, but the pressures to conform are so huge that it is hard to be able to explore our sense of self publicly. Instead we restrict ourselves to ghettos made up of support groups, a handful of nightclubs and specialist services that offer a chance (particularly for trans women) to dress and experiment with makeup. These organisations do good work, but we are still in ghettos, because society says we should be

Again fine. I can perfectly well understand why one might, for example, want to present in their private/social life before they do so at work.

But then

If you were to decide, for your own comfort and wellbeing, that you wanted to present at work as one gender two days a week, and another for the rest of the week, the law does not provide for you, and only the most enlightened of employers are likely to support you. But why shouldn't someone be able to do that, if they feel comfortable enough with themselves to want to be visible? If the individual is happier and feels supported they will be a better employee, so why should that be a problem? What about school or college students?

After this she goes back to talking out the problems with initially presenting.

kizbot says

You don't need to understand why someone would want to do that.. It isn't the issue.

I think you do. If something is to be provided for in law, people need to understand why.

Transgender people are in an uneviable position of public ridicule, etc. But saying you will cross-present Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays needs some explanation if this is to change. If the author wants to foster understanding, reach out to people.

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:03PM


The issue, MeinHerzBrent, is that even with a supportive employer it too me many years to get past the feeling that I was not an acceptable human being before I could take the steps that I have now taken. Many employers, even with the law as it stands, are not so supportive. I know of people who have been abused verbally, and in some cases physically. One experience I know of - which I will not relate as it is not mine to tell - was virtually Dickensian in its brutality.

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Brusselsexpats
15 Mar 2010, 12:03PM

Workplace rights should be a paramount right for everyone, no matter whether they are straight, gay or transgendered. If people do their work well and are pleasant to get along with it's no one's business how they want to present themselves.

Belgium has always been tolerant of transgender and I've known quite a few transgendered people in my time. Great company they were too.

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graftonway
15 Mar 2010, 12:03PM

because many people think it's about clothes, and that (particularly) men dressed as women will look ridiculous.

Well I certainly would. In fact I already look ridiculous dressed as a man, never mind a woman.

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PaulBJ
15 Mar 2010, 12:04PM

Everyone has the right to be true to themselves.And whether people
understand transgender or not is neither here nor there.The fact is they
exist and should be treated the same as everyone else.

Good article Natasha and all the very best.

.....

PhilippaB
15 Mar 2010, 12:04PM

zounds

I think that one reason homosexuals achieved certain bourgeois rights is because they stopped presenting themselves as a criminal class and started presenting themselves as a market

If that's true, is it not perhaps a function of picking the strategy best likely to appeal to the 'establishment'? Like, not fighting for universal healthcare reform on moral grounds but on the basis of total cost and economic benefit to society, to appeal to those for who money is their key concern. That 'means to an end' approach might be criticised as 'buying in' to the prevailing system, but if that's what it takes, to stress the economic productivity (say) of a certain group, if the result is freedom (the original goal) for that group that might not otherwise have been achieved, isn't that a legitimate approach?

.....

kizbot
15 Mar 2010, 12:06PM

One or the other is obviously fine, but flip-flopping between the two would surely be an indulgence too far.

On what grounds. What do you care if the person does their job? I may decide to wear a frilly dress and curl my hair and wear lots of makeup one day and the next my hair cut short and wear a check shirt, trousers and no make-up... Who has any right to comment on this? Why would anyone care? If I can choose to wear high heels and skirt one day and flat shoes and trousers the next with absolutely no likelihood of comment then I don't see why anyone else shouldn't... Why would I have to 'indulge' them? It isn't indulging... it's just accepting. And that really isn't a difficult thing to do!

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RoseCloke
15 Mar 2010, 12:08PM

My previous employer hosted a Transgender Conference every two years, including last summer. We all had to go through extensive training, both with the HR department and also with a representative from the Gender Trust. It was an eye-opening experience for all sorts of reasons, especially regarding aspects that we considered 'trivial', but on closer examination really weren't (for example as a university campus hotel, we kept our separate male and female toilets locked, which had the potential to cause embarrassment and upset if staff made an incorrect gender assumption when handing out keys - for that weekend both toilets were left open).

@goldmine

As regards appearance, I can't comment on your situation, but the lady from the Gender Trust gave us some awful stats on what kind of help and cosmetic resources are available where. It's a postcode lottery unless you have the vast financial resources to go private. I also imagine that it must be extremely difficult to 'present' as another gender, especially if you are later on in life (most of our delegates were middle aged) and haven't had the benefit of awkward adolescent experimentation (when everyone expects you to look awful - I certainly misapplied plenty of make-up!).

.....

tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:09PM

JimPress - I'm not saying others are not singled out - I know people are in terms of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation etc. My point was the ridicule of trans people is almost the default position, and treatment with dignity is rare (but improving) - because our situation is not well understood. Another commenter has already made it about appearance - visibly some people will inevitably transition more successfully than others, and that's nobody's fault.

I'm not trying to compete for victimhood - merely to point out that the situation is more complex than the law allows for, and therefore the equality legislation is defective. In a sense all equality legislation should be to help people become as free as possible within the bounds of society. The current GRA helps only some trans people, and even those it helps may take years to reach that point because they take on board the reaction of society, family, friends ...

.....

Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 12:10PM

What has this to do with your employer? I can easily support rules which prevent your employer descriminating against you because you are a woman or BME or whatever. But I would assume that the person involved was just someone that wanted a job, could do the job and wanted a fair crack at getting it.

That has absolutely nothing whatever to do with an employer having to deal with someone that can't decide who they actually are. If you want to be a woman than get a job as a woman and leave it at that. If you want to be a bloke then get a job as a bloke and leave it at that. Why on earth you think you should be indulged in silly games designed to make an issue of all this by getting a job as one and turning up as the other I have no idea.

What about the honesty aspect of this. How can anyone trust you to do anything when they don't know who you are supposed to be at any one time. How can an employer assess your personal characteristics and suitability for a job if one day you decide to be or appear to be someone else.

Why should employers that just want someone to sell widgets or make whatyoumaycallits have to deall with all your nonsense at all?

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:11PM

peterbracken why is it 'an indulgence' - and what problems would it create? It wasn't anything I personallly wanted to do, but I wonder where you draw the 'empathy line'?

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Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 12:13PM

RoseCloke

15 Mar 2010, 12:08PM

My previous employer hosted a Transgender Conference every two years, including last summer. We all had to go through extensive training, both with the HR department and also with a representative from the Gender Trust. It was an eye-opening experience for all sorts of reasons, especially regarding aspects that we considered 'trivial', but on closer examination really weren't (for example as a university campus hotel, we kept our separate male and female toilets locked, which had the potential to cause embarrassment and upset if staff made an incorrect gender assumption when handing out keys - for that weekend both toilets were left open).

Can I assume that you work in the public sector? If not I am interested which other area of business has so much money and spare time on their hands.

.....

Valten78
15 Mar 2010, 12:14PM

"Trans people are also the last minority it's OK to ridicule".

We hear this claim from several different minorities a week.

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RoseCloke
15 Mar 2010, 12:14PM

@ilikedthe80s

I don't even know where to begin with your comment, but it's unimaginatively ignorant and exceptional unpleasant.

.....

zounds
15 Mar 2010, 12:15PM

samuelpalin

I think you do. If something is to be provided for in law, people need to understand why.

No. People should not be allowed to be sacked on the prejudices of their bosses or managers on the basis of sexuality, race or gender. End of. You don't need to understand the causal relationship between hormones in the womb, or have any theories about over-indulgent mothers, or any of that crock. You have a job, and if you can do that job, you have a right not to be fired from it on irrelevancies of identity. I don't give a shit if my boss doesn't understand my sexuality, I only care if that effects the way he treats me in my job.

peterbracken

One or the other is obviously fine, but flip-flopping between the two would surely be an indulgence too far.

An indulgence? I don't regard workers rights as a frippery, a gift handed down from our betters. My workplace rights do not depend on the indulgences of my bosses, and they certainly weren't won that way.

PhilippaB

It depends what you're looking for. Certainly middle-class self-identifying gay men now live a charmed life of luxury. I believe we (as a society) have paid for that by turning sexuality from a matter of human relations to a matter of commodity relations, and Lady Gaga's latest offering would seem to confirm my suspicions. I don't think the right of gay men to love each other freely is responsible for that, but the tactic of achieving that by turning our love into an accessible and open market may well have.

.....

tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:15PM

Ilikedthe80s if you can't accept that there are people whose physical gender and 'brain gender' are at odds, then I probably can't persuade you. If you do accept this notion and begin to think about what that experience might be like for someone growing up then you might have some empathy for trans people's situation.

.....

RoseCloke
15 Mar 2010, 12:16PM

@ilikedthe80s

I worked for a university. I don't consider it money wasted - if we take money from people then we should provide a decent service and that includes being aware of their needs and any problems that might arise. It includes treating them as human beings and not "nonsense".

.....

JimPress
15 Mar 2010, 12:17PM

tashaUK: "JimPress - I'm not saying others are not singled out"

Actually, you did say that when you claimed "Trans people are also the last minority it's OK to ridicule". I'm supporting your rights, but challenging your initial suggestion that you're uniquely discriminated against. You're not. I repeat, your plea would be more powerful if you dropped the tunnel vision and showed more empathy and solidarity towards others.

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goldmine
15 Mar 2010, 12:20PM

kizbot

Yeah but why? Why is it ok to give attention to people simply because they do not conform to the stereotypes or archetypes you have in your head? And there are quite a few women with hairy arms, tattoos and gruff voices, anyways.. Would you think it ok for a woman who wasn't trans to be s****ed / stared at? I don't... whether the woman is trans or not.

If you have to ask "yeah but why?" then I would suggest you are somewhat detatched from the real world.

Of course it's not right for anyone, Trans or otherwise to be stared at however, people are always going to be interested / repulsed by people who look different from them.

.....

JimPress
15 Mar 2010, 12:22PM

peterbracken: "flip-flopping between the two would surely be an indulgence too far."

Peter, you need to broaden your horizons. It's no problem or head-**** for me that my girlfriend wears a skirt and high heels one day, and a pair of jeans and trainers the next. Why's this kind of thing so hard for you?

.....

tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:23PM

JimPress - I don't believe I have tunnel vision and I work with a huge diversity of people, both through the University and in work with Norwich Pride. I don't think we're at odds. My point is not that we are uniquely discriminated against, but that there are unique elements to the way in which we **are** discriminated against, partly due to lack of public understanding.

Best, Natasha

.....

Danot
15 Mar 2010, 12:24PM

many people think it's about clothes, and that (particularly) men dressed as women will look ridiculous.

The reality is that sometimes they do, I know one transgender (male to female) who simply looks like Bill Bailey in a frock with make-up randomly smeared on her face. I think that an employer should have the right to expect staff to dress in an appropriate manner in a professional environment regardless of their gender. The legislation needs to reflect this reality.

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Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 12:26PM

kizbot

15 Mar 2010, 12:06PM

One or the other is obviously fine, but flip-flopping between the two would surely be an indulgence too far.

Kizbot

On what grounds. What do you care if the person does their job?

Well if they are working on their own nobody cares. But if you are an employer with other employees or clients then it matters.
You can deny it all you like but some bloke coming to work dressed as a woman or vice versa isn't exactly getting on with the job. It is making a spectacle.

Employers have the right to expect that the person they hired turns up for work. Not someone else. If you get hired because you display good personal grooming for a client facing role but turn up in dirty jeans and ripped tee shirt, then it is fair to say that you misrepresented yourself.

If you check with your employer first to see if it ok and they agree then that is fine. Otherwise it is misrepresentation. All the more so if an employer feels that they want to address a gender imbalance in the work place and so hires a woman to make the balance better and then finds they are back to square one.
As I said an employer has a right to expect that the person they hired be the one that turn up to work. Any hang-ups or issues an employee might have that prevent that, ought to be declared.

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peterbracken
15 Mar 2010, 12:28PM

It's all well and good banging on about workers' rights, zounds, but do us all a favour and admit that colleagues of a gender cameleon (for want of a better description) are going to find it very difficult to relate to and interact with him and her.

Now that may their problem, not his and hers, but not to accept the sense of the observation is borderline dishonest or gullible or both.

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:28PM


Danot, would you consider someone presenting as well as they possibly can 'dressing in an appropriate manner' or do you think some people shouldn't be employed because they don't look the way you would like them to look? Or should we generalize from your opinion of the appearance of one particuilar person?

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Clunie
15 Mar 2010, 12:32PM

Excellent article Natasha. Nobody should live in fear and discomfort about coming out as who or what they are; this is fairly basic but seems that some folk still don't get it. Which is pretty sad.

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Venebles
15 Mar 2010, 12:32PM

Trans people are also the last minority it's OK to ridicule, because many people think it's about clothes, and that (particularly) men dressed as women will look ridiculous.

First, they are not the last mockable minority. Ask any fat person.

Second, men dressed as women DO look ridiculous. They just do. That's why it's funny. If you don't like it, don't dress as a woman in public. There you go, probem solved.

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:33PM

ilikedthe80s writes

As I said an employer has a right to expect that the person they hired be the one that turn up to work. Any hang-ups or issues an employee might have that prevent that, ought to be declared.

So does that apply to someone with a (non-visible) disability? Do we all need to fully disclose everything about us prior to accepting a job? Your good self excepted I presume.

I transitioned socially nearly eight months ago. I joined the University ten years ago. Did I deceive them when I took a job from them? Is that what you're saying?

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Psalmist
15 Mar 2010, 12:35PM

Whilst in sympathy for those suffering from gender dysphoria I yet again find myself asking why you can't deal with it without involving the whole world.

It may be all that you are but it is not an issue that benefits from mass debate.

Nobody is saying that legislation couldn't be passed, but I find the ides that you can be born one sex and end up with a birth certificate for another sex frankly bizarre.

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PhilippaB
15 Mar 2010, 12:36PM

zounds

I believe we (as a society) have paid for that by turning sexuality from a matter of human relations to a matter of commodity relations

So the risk of a 'means to an end' approach is that only those members of the group able / prepared to undertake that compromise / play the game get the benefit, thus splitting the 'group' into those who (to use term from the current debate) 'pass' and those who don't? See your point...

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kizbot
15 Mar 2010, 12:36PM

people are always going to be interested / repulsed by people who look different from them.

Good ****ing grief! So it's ok to stare at someone with a birthmark on their face for instance or a disfigurement because...'people are always going to be interested / repulsed by people who look different from them'? And we should just like accept that as human nature or something? If it's ok to stare at one group because they're 'different' then it follows it's ok to stare at all of them, doesn't it... Lets bring by circus freaks, eh?
I think people should learn to ****in grow up, myself...

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Ghostworld
15 Mar 2010, 12:37PM

tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:33PM
ilikedthe80s writes

As I said an employer has a right to expect that the person they hired be the one that turn up to work. Any hang-ups or issues an employee might have that prevent that, ought to be declared.

So does that apply to someone with a (non-visible) disability? Do we all need to fully disclose everything about us prior to accepting a job? Your good self excepted I presume.

I transitioned socially nearly eight months ago. I joined the University ten years ago. Did I deceive them when I took a job from them? Is that what you're saying?
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Well yes you do , most job applications will contain a section whereby you can let the future employer know of any problems or disabilities one has

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zounds
15 Mar 2010, 12:38PM

peterbracken

It's all well and good banging on about workers' rights, zounds, but do us all a favour and admit that colleagues of a gender cameleon (for want of a better description) are going to find it very difficult to relate to and interact with him and her.

I can't help feeling the same sentiments would have been echoed 30 years ago about homosexual work colleagues.

Whether or not I'd find them hard to relate to (having worked with transitioning transgendered people, I doubt it, but I take your point) is irrelevant to their legal rights.

My point was that those legal rights aren't gifted but won, and secondly that calling such issues of transgenderism 'indulgences' is a luxury only someone not struggling with such issues could take.

Natascha didn't even seem to be asking for people to understand her feelings, but just for her rights to be honoured and her for her to be treated with a basic level of dignity and respect. The fact that a large amount of people have come on here with comments essentially amounting to- "it's weird" shows how far we've got to go on that issue.

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JayReilly
15 Mar 2010, 12:39PM

Presenting as you like is one thing, agreed (doing the job is what counts, not what you wear), but are there not some practical problems with the flip flop approach which is also being argued for? Suppose its a large office, some days you are Jay and some days Janine. If on a Janine day someone calls me Jay, will i be able to go to HR and complain of insensitivity and gender discrimination? Quite possible, knowing the rights culture which pervades. Will it be admissable at a tribunal of worplace harrassment or abuse? Quite possibly.

Suppose its a big office. Someone is told to phone Jay for issue X, Janine picks up the phone and is possibly offended, or possibly has to explain the whole issue. Some offices are big, people dont know most people, they often have to phone or email people regularly who they dont know at all and have never met.

Or customers, suppose you are an account manager. What do you tell your customers when they phone asking for Janine? "She's actually Jay today, i'll put you through. Please call him Jay, if you call him Janine we may be guilty of not protecting our employees from gender discrimination etc."

The point is, when your identity change requires something from others - for them to use certain names, for example, then is flip flopping not putting an impractical and mildly unreasonable burden on your colleagues? You are not just asking them to accept your chosen identity (which is another thing entirely) but you are asking them to modify their behaviour in line with your daily choice of identity.

When someone slips up, they'll not only feel guilty and awkward, they may even qualify for having breached equality laws by not respecting your gender identity. Asking people to respect your identity is one thing, asking them to respect your daily choice of identity seems slightly different.

Anyway, good to see you writing ATL Natasha.

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:42PM

zounds - thank you. I'm not exactly astonished by some of hte responses, particularly as ghostworld seems to think that everyone should disclose everything about themselves before applying for any job!

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JayReilly
15 Mar 2010, 12:43PM

"Second, men dressed as women DO look ridiculous. They just do."

Yet millions of women dress "as men do" every day in this country. Jeans, t shirt, shirt. Its just that these days there arent really gender limits on what women can wear. A woman in jeans and t shirt is never called a woman "in drag". If its possible to make male clothing largely gender neutral, is the same not probably possible with female clothing?

If not, why not?

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Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 12:43PM

RoseCloke

15 Mar 2010, 12:16PM

@ilikedthe80s

I worked for a university. I don't consider it money wasted - if we take money from people then we should provide a decent service and that includes being aware of their needs and any problems that might arise. It includes treating them as human beings and not "nonsense".

I thought so. The taxpayer who provided that money (and I'll take any sized bet you like) would overwhelmingly disagree that it was money well spent. It was an indulgent waste of time and money by people who feel unaccountable.

I believe very strongly in taxpayer funded public services. The main threat to these services comes from the fact that so many taxpayers are easily persuaded that their money is being wasted in a bloated and profligate public sector. That view makes it difficult to defend public service provision and to raise taxes to pay for it. Stories like yours are grist to the mill of those that are against public service provision or wish it reduced massively to the detriment of many ordinary people using services thay really need.

All the while that child protection is underfunded, that soldiers go without vital equipment, that insufficient funds are available for literacy and drug rehab programmes in prisons, that NICE is unable to fund life extending drugs and treatment due to cost...all the while you and your colleagues are fittering away taxpayers money on a Transgender Conference. I hope you are very proud of the contribution you are making to a Tory victory.

RoseCloke

15 Mar 2010, 12:14PM

@ilikedthe80s

I don't even know where to begin with your comment, but it's unimaginatively ignorant and exceptional unpleasant.

Disagreeing with you is not ignorance and attacking self indulgence and the profligate waste of money provided for proper public services is not unpleasant in my book. It's the right thing for all left minded people to do.

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RoseCloke
15 Mar 2010, 12:45PM

@Venables

So it's okay for anyone you think looks 'ridiculous' to be publicly mocked? See kizbot's above remarks for why your position is untenable.

@Psalmist

it is not an issue that benefits from mass debate.

From some of the remarks on here that's clearly not true. There's an astounding lack of a) information and b) knowledge out there (and I include myself in that) enabling people to make non-discriminatory remarks.

For example (please correct me if I'm wrong Natasha), gender dysphoria doesn't mean you're born as one gender (mental and physical) and change both - as you seem to be suggesting - it means that you're born mentally male or female but your body doesn't match who you really are. The trauma that must cause anyone doesn't bear thinking about - let alone then having to deal with remarks by and fear of people in the workplace/general public.

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Ghostworld
15 Mar 2010, 12:45PM

@ Tasha

I believe you really understood my point , but are choosing to pretend you didn't

i'm sure you are aware i did not imply one should disclose " everything " but if one is wanting to be called Jill two days a week and John the other 3 , then i kinda think this should be mentioned to your future employer rather than springing on them on some random day

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:46PM


JayReilly, with any workplace changes of this nature it would be discussed by the department/HR etc. There were very careful preparations for my workplace transition, which I was fully involved in and consulted on. The crux of my argument is that TGism is more complicated than even some enlightened people may appreciate, and that some people (a few of them have posted here) decide that some people are more equal than others, which is one of the things that keeps up closeted.

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peterbracken
15 Mar 2010, 12:49PM

zounds:

I can't help feeling the same sentiments would have been echoed 30 years ago about homosexual work colleagues.

It's not the same at all. For reasons which JayReilly amplifies.

And JimP, don't be obtuse.

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:52PM


Ghostworld I do understand that point, but believe me very few people spring this randomly on any employer. But that doesn't mean that you should pre-declare something which, in any case, you may be struggling with. I knew I was trans when I was 10 but it took me many years to accept what that really meant. When I joined the University I had not accepted myself and did not know that my transness would have workplace implications. That's why, for years, I put huge amounts of effort into stopping anyone finding out. But that is not the same as deception.

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funkhausen
15 Mar 2010, 12:52PM

Ask any fat person.

Or ginger, or nerd, or fat ginger nerd!

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RoseCloke
15 Mar 2010, 12:58PM

@Ilikedthe80s

We weren't providing a private service: the conferences branch exists to make money, as it does in any university, and we made a healthy profit every year. The talk given by HR took place in a university-owned room (free), given by university staff (they were doing their jobs) and I received the strong impression that the Gender Trust presentation (also given in a university venue, with university equipment, so a negligible cost) was provided for next-to-nothing.

Given that one of my colleagues in a senior position was under the mistaken impression that gender dysphoria was a treatable mental illness (they are in their fifties so were brought up with vastly different impressions of transgender people) and given that we were in a customer-facing role, I believe it was necessary.

The conference will more than likely make a repeat booking, using facilities that would otherwise be left vacant during the holidays (at great taxpayer expense!) and providing more work for other campus services, from catering to housekeeping to technical support.

As to your language, I object to such phrases as "has absolutely nothing whatever to do with an employer having to deal with someone that can't decide who they actually are"; "indulged in silly games"; "How can an employer assess your personal characteristics"; "have to deall with all your nonsense at all?" and my personal favourite, "How can anyone trust you to do anything".

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KLupus
15 Mar 2010, 1:00PM

@ peterbracken
15 Mar 2010, 11:58AM

One or the other is obviously fine, but flip-flopping between the two would surely be an indulgence too far.

Peter. My reading of bold section of that sentence suggests that you see somebody going to work in their true as opposed to their biological gender identity as in some way like a gift to a child or underling. I'm not sure if that is what you meant. If it is I don't agree.

Rights such as those for transgendered people are or should be acknowledged as adding dignity rather than a conditional reward to those seated below the salt.

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Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 1:00PM

tashaUK t

15 Mar 2010, 12:33PM

So does that apply to someone with a (non-visible) disability? Do we all need to fully disclose everything about us prior to accepting a job? Your good self excepted I presume.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes actually if you are ever going to bring it to work you should. That would be a honest thing to do when presenting yourself for employment. I think contracts of employment ought to be void if this is not done. If you have a disability you don't declare that subsequently requires substantial time off work or increased medical insurance costs to your employer then I think it right that you should declare that. Otherwise I think your contract should be void.

If I tell my car insurance company I have a clean licence and have had no accidents or claims in the last 5 years but actually I have 9 points, a conviction for dangerous driving and three claims against me for rear ending people at traffic lights, Then I would expect them on discovering that to tell me that the deal was off. If I were lucky they might even decide not to prosecute me for fraud.

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Etoiles
15 Mar 2010, 1:01PM

, and expecting others (work colleagues or school mates, for example) to deal with it is naive.

Expecting people to take a man in a dress seriously is also a bit much.

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Ghostworld
15 Mar 2010, 1:03PM

tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 12:52PM
Contributor Ghostworld I do understand that point, but believe me very few people spring this randomly on any employer. But that doesn't mean that you should pre-declare something which, in any case, you may be struggling with. I knew I was trans when I was 10 but it took me many years to accept what that really meant. When I joined the University I had not accepted myself and did not know that my transness would have workplace implications. That's why, for years, I put huge amounts of effort into stopping anyone finding out. But that is not the same as deception.

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Thanks for replying again Tasha

I do understand your points Tasha, but something of this nature that could affect a working enviroment ( as Jay pointed out earlier ) should be pre- declared at interview stage , again for the reasons Jay stated earlier , however , i wouldn't want you to take my comments as being interpreted as being against you, nothing could be further from the truth

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 1:07PM

@ rosecloke - yes, essentially it is about brain and body gender being at odds - and the consensus of medical research, psychologists etc

Unison has a very good guide which explains definitions and the current workplace situation.

http://www.uea.ac.uk/equality/Unison+Transgender+Guide

@ilikedte80s - took you a while to get to the argument it looked like you were heading to, but you got there in the end, i.e. you think we are shallow people diverting resources from the needy. Nope - we want all necessary medical treatments to be funded. And guess what - ours is just as necessary as any of the others.

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Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 1:08PM

So this statement that clearly indicates that it was a public service you were providing

I worked for a university. I don't consider it money wasted - if we take money from people then we should provide a decent service and that includes being aware of their needs and any problems that might arise. It includes treating them as human beings and not "nonsense".

was wrong and it was a private conference making money. I assume that the delegate fees for this highly valuable conference were paid by individuals and private businesse? Actually I don't . I assume thay were paid by other people in the public sector who also had too much money and time to waste.

As to your language, I object to such phrases as "has absolutely nothing whatever to do with an employer having to deal with someone that can't decide who they actually are"; "indulged in silly games"; "How can an employer assess your personal characteristics"; "have to deall with all your nonsense at all?" and my personal favourite, "How can anyone trust you to do anything".

Object away! Getiing a job as a person of one gender and then turning up to work as a person of another is a juvenile game and does make you liable to the charge of misrepresenting yourself if you don't mention that you might be doing this type of thing when you take the job.

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nobodyisinnocent
15 Mar 2010, 1:09PM

i am a male heterosexual and hate women's fashion, make up and hair do, high heels and so called sexy underwear. i do like lesbian or simply gender neutral fashion, haircuts and features a lot.

i call myself a feminist. i take the piss out of many female so called style icons as i cannot understand how high heels or £700 handbags or make-up is in any way empowering. i simply cannot help s**** when i see anyone attempting to cross dress seriously.

should i seek help?

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MacRandall
15 Mar 2010, 1:09PM

I like Silly Hats.

Silly Hats define me.

What possibly could it matter to you if I wear a Silly Hat?

Yet no one allows me to wear Silly Hats to work.

Proving Silly Hat people still miss out on equality.

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JorgeyBorgey
15 Mar 2010, 1:11PM

Here, here! I don't think any one should be discrimination because of something they were born with. It must be harsh alone being born in the wrong body.

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oldusty
15 Mar 2010, 1:11PM

Transgender is a meaningless word. Two X chromosomes are present in a female cell, one X and one Y in a male cell. A man remains a man even after he has had his dick cut off and wears skirts. Every cell in his body will remain male. For the law to decide otherwise is illogical, but then the law was ever an ass.

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 1:11PM


@Ghostworld - I don't think our HR department would agree with you in fact - and I do appreciate your comments are not personally directed, but I don't think they are practical. And indeed the legislation on disability for example is not designed to work that way.

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tashaUK
15 Mar 2010, 1:15PM


@oldusy

The world is not as you would have it be.

Suggest you read

http://www.isna.org/faq/

for starters

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Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 1:16PM

tasha
15 Mar 2010, 1:07PM
Contributor Contributor

@ilikedte80s - took you a while to get to the argument it looked like you were heading to, but you got there in the end, i.e. you think we are shallow people diverting resources from the needy. Nope - we want all necessary medical treatments to be funded. And guess what - ours is just as necessary as any of the others.

Really! You really think this is a medical treatment as important as life saving medical care for people with real illnesses. How self obsessed can anyone be? You want to compete for medical resources with people that will die if they don't get them.

No I'll take dialysis machines and such like over this nonsense any day of the week and twice on a Sunday. And you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking your problems are on a par with that.

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KLupus
15 Mar 2010, 1:17PM

Ilikedthe80s
15 Mar 2010, 1:00PM

If I tell my car insurance company I have a clean licence and have had no accidents or claims in the last 5 years but actually I have 9 points, a conviction for dangerous driving and three claims against me for rear ending people at traffic lights, Then I would expect them on discovering that to tell me that the deal was off. If I were lucky they might even decide not to prosecute me for fraud.

Ilikedthe80s

I don't see how this holds good. You are comparing two different things. On the one hand there is the issue of somebodies identity, one which as tashaUK has explained can take years to work through. Disclosure of such issues can and does often lead to discrimination and bullying. It is understandable that somebody with a non visible difference might choose to avoid being the subjected to illegal behaviour.

You compare this to knowingly making a false declaration of fact in response to specific questions asked by an insurer. These questions are legitimate because the insurer is assessing the risk they run in offering you a policy and will weight their premium accordingly. As you rightly say such a false declaration might lead to a criminal conviction.

I sense that in some way you may be influenced by your personal values in choosing the example you cite.

When I was working in the equality field I cam across these sorts of false comparisons quite regularly. They take up time and energy and don't actually move debate forward.

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3genders
15 Mar 2010, 1:17PM

Excellent article, Natasha!

Harriet Transphobe has gone on record (very recently, in fact) as saying that she's got much more 'important' things to do than to protect the rights of transpeople - or even those of her sisters to wear trousers. The government's 'Equalities' Unit claims that being transgendered is a mere 'lifestyle choice' and, therefore, (unlike any other group of people) deem us not worthy of legal protection against human rights violation under UK law.

Firstly, by dismissing being trans as a pure 'lifestyle choice', the government obviously don't believe that being trans has any biological basis - and, therefore, reject much of modern scientific thought.

Secondly, at the same time, freedom of religious association and worship is considered to be one of the most important things enshrined in human rights legislation. Yet isn't religion a *lifestyle choice*, too...and, if it is not, then it's a human rights violation as forcing a religion onto individuals or groups of people against their rule is otherwise known as forcible conversion. So, obviously if our government consider both religion as a 'lifestyle choice' and being trans a 'lifestyle choice', then why is one lifestyle choice more important than another lifestyle choice? After all, what's the point of an 'Equality Bill' if some groups of people are deemed with the privilege of being more worthy and equal than others?

Another thing that puzzles me is just why on earth many schools and workplaces are so insistent about compelling their students and employees to conform to gendered dress codes based on sexist stereotypes of femininity and masculinity whilst at the same time proudly banging on ad-infinitum about their soopa-doopa all-singing' all-dancin' equal opportunities policies, anti-sexist 'mission statements' and (pass the vomit bag:) 'commitment to gender diversity'?

Perhaps - despite all these fine words - it's just that some of us are considered to be too *gender diverse* for our own good, eh?

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RoseCloke
15 Mar 2010, 1:18PM

@Ilikedthe80s

Your assumptions are wholly incorrect. 95% of our delegates were private attendees, at various stages of transitioning, 4% were partners/spouses and I think between five and eight had been sent there by their firms/companies. I spoke to nearly all the delegates (over the three days I handed out badges/delegate packs to almost everyone) and only spoke to two people from a public sector job. They're included in my 'five to eight' estimate.

You seem to be suggesting that people with gender dysphoria change their outward appearance as the result of a whim. Given the levels of hostility faced by TG people I doubt that any employee would turn up without having discussed their transition with their supervisor/making sure they weren't going to be on the receiving end of abuse.

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Natacha
15 Mar 2010, 1:18PM

Excellent article Natasha!

I am in that unenviable position of wanting to present as male sometimes and female at others. The law does not support me as it does you. My gender expression and identity is not transsexual, and I am not covered by the Equality Bill. I have been campaigning about this for years, including writing an article in CiF more than two years ago. The government has still refused to budge on this issue, and as such I can be sacked or given less favourable treatment by my employer because I am trans. I could suffer from transphobic bullying by co-workers and my boss would be under no pressure to do anything about it.

I have taken these issues up with Vera Baird and others in the government and they have said that they will not include all trans people in the Equality Bill but given no reasons for this.

However this is not the worst element of the Equality Bill.

Transgender people become aware of their (trans)gender identities at very young ages. my own research has put the mean average at around 7 years of age, with the modal average at just five. Around 80% of trans people become aware that they were transgender before they leave primary school, and less than 4% become aware they are trans after their 18th birthday. So the issue of transgender children is huge, and since the majority of transgender people are, like myself, not transsexual (possibly as much as 95% of us) then the majority of trans children are als