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86240 Posts in 5083 Topics by 1062 Members Latest Member: - seawords Most online today: 22 - most online ever: 66 (June 14, 2007, 11:37:46 AM)

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Author Topic: West Indies University Subsidy  (Read 11373 times)
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Calvin
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« Reply #225 on: July 14, 2008, 10:26:31 AM »

All this arguement about the standard of UWI is irrelevant. It is ultimately counterintuitive that the government would effective subsidise a single University. They would do much better to take that money and offer more general scholarships to Bermudian students to anywhere. Noone can argue that there are indeed better institutions than UWI and that with a scholarship, a capable Bermudian could attend them, but this way they really only have one choice UWI or nothing, why not make better institutions available to those that are capable, instead of limiting them to a school that may be below their level and not take full advantage of their skills. But of course there must be some connection between UWI and a PLP high ranker, just waiting to see what that is...
Once again, the students suffer the consequences.
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Guilden
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« Reply #226 on: July 14, 2008, 11:16:58 AM »

Calvin,

The Government does offer general scholarships, bursaries, etc. for students to study anywhere. Of course there are better institutions than UWI but there are also many that are inferior.

Please show me how this arrange with UWI means students only have one choice, UWI or nothing.

This comment has been made by others but has yet to be substantiated,if you can do so please do so. There was nothing in the press statement that said anything about limiting the options for any student, if was stated that UWI is an ADDITIONAL option at a lower cost.
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« Reply #227 on: July 14, 2008, 11:23:38 AM »

Calvin,

You've hit the nail on the head.  Why did the PLP decide to subsidize this particular university as opposed to simply increasing the number of scholarships and bursaries?

On the question of admission requirements for UWI, according to their website:

Quote
Applicants must satisfy the general entrance (matriculation) requirements of the University which are outlined below. If you need to discuss your own qualifications please contact the Admissions Section.

MINIMUM AGE REQUIREMENTS:
Thereis no minimum age requirement for entry to undergraduate programmes at the University, except for applicants to the Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MBBS), and B.Sc. Physical Therapy who must be at least 18 years of age.
Applicants are required to satisfy the relevant University minimum entrance requirements for matriculation, either at Normal or Lower level, before being considered for admission to degree or other programmes.
FACULTY REQUIREMENTS
In addition, for admission to some degree programmes applicants are required to have qualifications in some specific subjects. These are referred to as Faculty Requirements and are stated in the relevant Faculty Regulations.

NORMAL MATRICULATION
(A) Passes in five subjects of which at least TWO must be at the CAPE/GCE A'Level while the remainder may be an acceptable pass in CXC(CSEC)/GCE/BGCSE Examinations. The following are acceptable :

Two 2-unit CAPE (Caribbean Advanced Proficiency Examination)
Six CAPE units including Caribbean Studies and Communication Studies.
(B) Other Qualifications to Full-Time Programmes

Associate Degrees from approved Caribbean Tertiary Level Instituitions with a minimum G.P.A. of 2.5 and above.
Holders of Associate Degrees from approved Caribbean Tertiary Level Instituitions are considered as having satisfied normal matriculation requirements for entry to certain faculties and in specific instances credit/exemption may be given in respect of Level I courses.
For the purpose of satisfying entry requirements, passes in subjects in the First Year examinations of the Faculties of Humanities and Education and Social Sciences and in Preliminary Level courses of the Faculties of Science and Agriculture, Pure and Applied Sciences of this University will be considered as the equivalent passes at the Advanced Level of the GCE examination.
Degrees from any university recognized by the Board of Undergraduate Studies for this purpose.
Persons with qualifications other than those stated above may also apply for admission.
Persons over age 21 and who do not fall in any of the above categories will be assessed on their overall professional/academic achievements.
LOWER LEVEL MATRICULATION
At least five (5) acceptable passes at CXC(CSEC)/GCE/BGCSE including English Language and ONE of the following; a Foreign Language, Mathematics, an approved Science subject ; Geography.

For the Faculties of Pure and Applied Science and Science and Agriculture, Mathematics and two (2) approved Science subjects are required.
For the Faculty of Social Sciences, Mathematics is required.


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Bermuda Rasta
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« Reply #228 on: July 14, 2008, 11:35:24 AM »

Calvin,

The Government does offer general scholarships, bursaries, etc. for students to study anywhere. Of course there are better institutions than UWI but there are also many that are inferior.

Please show me how this arrange with UWI means students only have one choice, UWI or nothing.

This comment has been made by others but has yet to be substantiated,if you can do so please do so. There was nothing in the press statement that said anything about limiting the options for any student, if was stated that UWI is an ADDITIONAL option at a lower cost.

Scholarships are performance-based.  Bursaries are generally needs-based.  Then there are the majority of students in the C+/B- range who don't qualify for scholarships who belong to households whose incomes exceed the bursary cut-off but are not rich enough to afford $20K per year for overseas education.  I think the argument put forth is that if a government is going to assist the middle-of-the-pack students, their assistance is limited to UWI.
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sandgrownan
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« Reply #229 on: July 14, 2008, 11:44:17 AM »

Guilden  - you miss my point/comment.

Sand,

I think Tryangle can answer your questions about admission requirements as he/she is a graduate of UWI. I do believe Tryangle mentioned GCE A level requirements.

There are GCE "A" levels and there are GCE "A" levels. Double maths, physics and chemistry are significantly different to Media studies, Sociology and philosophy. And that's before we even start to talk about actual grades. But none of this is relevant, the thread really isn't about the "quality" of UWI or how that might be measured, although it is important, but about the tie up between Bermuda and UWI.

Calvin, is spot on with this post.

All this arguement about the standard of UWI is irrelevant. It is ultimately counterintuitive that the government would effective subsidise a single University. They would do much better to take that money and offer more general scholarships to Bermudian students to anywhere. Noone can argue that there are indeed better institutions than UWI and that with a scholarship, a capable Bermudian could attend them, but this way they really only have one choice UWI or nothing, why not make better institutions available to those that are capable, instead of limiting them to a school that may be below their level and not take full advantage of their skills.
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Tryangle
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« Reply #230 on: July 14, 2008, 11:48:13 AM »

Someone obtaining a B.Sc or B.A. should get the same interview as one obtaining the same degree at any other college.

Uh .... No.

There is a vast difference between universities.  That's a given.  (If not, why would people like Maclean's bother with ranking schools.  Or for that matter, why would someone come up with a list of the top 100 universities in the world?)

And it's extremely unlikely that an interviewer is going to speak to more than half a dozen candidates so rightly or wrongly what school you attended is going to be part of that pre-screening process.

As an observation, the phrase "the same degree" at any other college doesn't even hold true.  There are universities that only give B.A. degrees, regardless of the course of study taken.  That means that, your choice of school may well result in you receiving a different set of letters to put after your name [e.g., B.Eng. at A, B.A. at B, B.Sc. at C].

as should level of degree obtained (Honours, GPA or equivalent).

Those Top 100 rankings are probably as much an accurate indicator of strength of programme as it is about ego-pumping and penis measuring, where how much $$ you get from alumni and larger facilities instantly gets you a boost.

Quote from: sandgrownan
Er yes, that's the general qualification for University in the U, BUT, and it's a big but, you need different A level grades...

No argument here, except the whole 'er' bit :-)

But later on you bring up the story about what level of 'A' Level you got, and I do believe that's the case for many. However there's the possibility of cost being a factor. If you can't afford the school that you're aiming towards because you didn't quite get that scholarship and can't afford the full cost, there's a solid option available that can provide you with quality education that you can afford.

Regarding what graduates from UWI have done since then, many have gone on to become doctors, gotten MBAs, etc. Many have taken their undergraduate diplomas and turned them into Master's or Doctorate degrees from UWI or other overseas locations.


But anyway, this whole thing shouldn't be about the quality of UWI as a university (it's established: it's a solid school) but rather if the whole arrangement to invest funds there is in the best interest of Bermuda and its high school graduates and prospective college students.
As someone indicated, is that going to lead to more Bermudians attending UWI? Bermudians who otherwise wouldn't have been able to go to university due to cost issues?
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« Reply #231 on: July 14, 2008, 11:53:59 AM »

 The ties that bind..........

These monies will be sent or are being sent as another avenue for Money Laundrying or something similar. Sorta like a savings deposit with annual deposits....I need a rum.....

You all read about the "Fleesing of America".........but when you run out of Cahows....you'll know where they flew too. Shocked

The wind might be blowing now but wait until you see what the 'extractor' fan reveals......... Wink
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sandgrownan
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« Reply #232 on: July 14, 2008, 11:57:12 AM »

Tryangle - "But later on you bring up the story about what level of 'A' Level you got, and I do believe that's the case for many. "

Yes but, my choice of university was (limited) by my grades not finance. Here you might get the grades, but be "limited" to UWI because of finance. I use the word "limited" not as any indication of quality of UWI (don't want Guilden getting all defensive again!)

Why not a more general scholarship fund?
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Soul Rebel
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« Reply #233 on: July 14, 2008, 12:27:39 PM »

Calvin,

The Government does offer general scholarships, bursaries, etc. for students to study anywhere. Of course there are better institutions than UWI but there are also many that are inferior.

Please show me how this arrange with UWI means students only have one choice, UWI or nothing.

This comment has been made by others but has yet to be substantiated,if you can do so please do so. There was nothing in the press statement that said anything about limiting the options for any student, if was stated that UWI is an ADDITIONAL option at a lower cost.

Scholarships are performance-based.  Bursaries are generally needs-based.  Then there are the majority of students in the C+/B- range who don't qualify for scholarships who belong to households whose incomes exceed the bursary cut-off but are not rich enough to afford $20K per year for overseas education.  I think the argument put forth is that if a government is going to assist the middle-of-the-pack students, their assistance is limited to UWI.

Yeah it may seem that UWI is the only option for those who want to pursue an education overseas with limited funds.  But I would welcome anything at a much lower cost over nothing at all.  To me UWI is an added option for overseas education.  We also have the UK differential on top of not having to pay international student fees (which was negotiated by the government by the way) in the UK which lifts a great burden from students who choose to attend the UK which I did mention earlier in this thread.
Now I'll use myself as an example.  I was accepted at Brown University and Yale.  Guess what?  I obviously couldn't afford that kind of education even with the scholarships and bursaries that I got at the time.  I decided to go to college in Canada instead as it was a bit cheaper but I had to drop out because I still could not afford to go there neither.  Now if I had the option of going to UWI (even though it probably wouldn't have be recommended to me at the time) along with having family to stay with in the caribbean, along with the government allowance and the scholarships and bursaries I had at the time I'd be paying next to nothing for my education.  To me this would have been a very viable option if was presented to me at the time.
The debate still in this matter is the subsidy vs a scholarship fund but at least we have one of em.  Maybe somewhere in the near future we'll have both.
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« Reply #234 on: July 14, 2008, 12:37:52 PM »

Soul Rebel -

If one goes to UWI at the susidized rate should one also get any government funded scholarships on top of it? I can understand certain allowances etc. but my concern is if all the eggs are going into this one basket will it start having consequences on students, just like yourself, who were qualified for schools such as Brown and Yale from being able to attend because funds are being allocated elsewhere.

I would much rather have a future generation of talent that was created by students coming from all walks of life as opposed to coming from just one place. Eventually it will certainly homogenize our talent pool.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 12:39:34 PM by SmokingGun » Logged
sandgrownan
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« Reply #235 on: July 14, 2008, 12:41:30 PM »

Soul Rebel - that's the point of the debate! You should have gone to Yale!
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Blankman
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« Reply #236 on: July 28, 2008, 04:17:55 PM »

A different list of school rankings:

http://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings.aspx?uidbadge=%07

Slice and dice as you see fit.
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« Reply #237 on: July 28, 2008, 08:41:13 PM »

Quote
Best 368 Colleges, 2009 Edition

book cover
Enlarge View

Written by Princeton Review

Format: Trade Paperback, 832 pages
On Sale: July 2008
Price: $21.95
ISBN: 978-0-375-42872-2 (0-375-42872-0)

r u hawking this book cuz this is what shows up when u klk that link
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Blankman
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« Reply #238 on: July 29, 2008, 05:05:42 AM »

Just follow the links on the lower part of the page to see all sorts of information re various schools.
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