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March 14, 2010, 09:12:17 AM

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86218 Posts in 5080 Topics by 1059 Members Latest Member: - K@RMA Most online today: 18 - most online ever: 66 (June 14, 2007, 11:37:46 AM)

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Author Topic: West Indies University Subsidy  (Read 11371 times)
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Guilden
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« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2008, 05:00:33 PM »


Guilden, that article does not support the idea that international students are subsidizing local If you remove the international student differential the schools will have to make that revenue up by either an increase to everyone's fees, or a tax increase.  There's no other conclusion.


In other words, international students fees allow more locals to attend a tertiary level institution because it reduces the cost to them. Which equates to international student fees being a subsidy for local students. Please show me the difference.
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Guilden
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« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2008, 05:01:11 PM »

Guilden, that article does not support the idea that international students are subsidizing local students.  It's one side making a social argument that International Students are important to a campus (I agree) and should pay the same tuition while the other side makes the economic one that if they're not charged the unsubsidized fee the revenue will have to be made up somewhere else.

The simple fact is that taxpayers are subsidizing tuition for local students, not foreign students subsidizing local ones.  Charging everyone the same would mean that taxpayers are in fact subsidizing the education of non-taxpayer non-citizens.

If you remove the international student differential the schools will have to make that revenue up by either an increase to everyone's fees, or a tax increase.  There's no other conclusion.

But to suggest that international students subsidize locals is incorrect.
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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
SmokingGun
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« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2008, 05:04:25 PM »

"I guess in time we will see."

Not unless you've got a key to the school's bursar's office cos we ain't never gonna get no info outta this place. Wink
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Rummy
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« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2008, 05:05:54 PM »

 So whats your answer Mr. Guilden? Or is it more spin.....?What about the problems that affect Bermuda everyday? This is really 'here nor there'
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SmokingGun
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« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2008, 05:26:12 PM »

$20k per year per student - you pick the University of your choice as long as it's accredited. If it costs more per year you've got to come up with the extra on your own.

That's what I would do. My concern is that if Bermuda starts pooling money into one location such as UWI then they will be reducing the availablity of funds to students who want to go elsewhere. There are two obvious drawbacks:

 1) Potential for underutilized funds ending up in UWI.

 2) UWI cannot offer all the degrees that students will require therefore other options have to be available.

As to why did UWI get picked as opposed to somewhere such as Halifax which already has a great deal of Bermudians going is obvious. It really is a racial issue. Brown wants white people to get burned......

















..... and Halifax doesn't have enough sunshine. Got you again Guilden! Slap
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spincity.bda
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« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2008, 05:49:19 PM »

"In other words, international students fees allow more locals to attend a tertiary level institution because it reduces the cost to them. Which equates to international student fees being a subsidy for local students. Please show me the difference."

Uh, no.

The international students pay their own way in full so they have no impact on local student enrollment.  If the Universities were forced to charge them the same fee as locals they'd just have to start refusing international admissions or raise fees for everyone and have locals subsidize internationals who didn't contribute tax dollars.
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Rummy
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« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2008, 05:52:17 PM »

 Nah wah gutt dee beeg spinnarz  chumpin in......................

Good thing I live in the 'inner city'......................what about the price of gas,.........
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KickinSand
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« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2008, 05:56:53 PM »

......................what about the price of gas,.........

Hell the school fees is cheap, how bout G'ment paying for the AIR FARES!!!! All the travelling G'ment does the kids could fly on their miles!!!
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SmokingGun
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« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2008, 06:04:59 PM »

Guilden - look at it this way. If you lived in Canada and paid taxes and the government said any international student who wants to come to Canada for a University degree will have their fees paid for by the Canadian taxpayers, would you accept that?

Taxpayers don't subsidize foreign students and foreign students don't subsidize taxpayers.

Now if what you are trying to say is the programs and teaching is enhanced by having foreign students paying full boat then that may well be true. Especially in smaller locations. Trying to suggest it's a form of subsidy is just trying to spin it so the less educated Bermudians will think: "Oh gosh, well we'd be subsidizing them anyway so what's the big deal?" Which is the typical PLP way of trying to pull the wool over people's heads......














....and you know it. Angry Smiley
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« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2008, 06:05:04 PM »

Guilden, I agree completely.  The PLP had a real shot, but they got drunk on champagne and then handed the keys to the worst kleptocrats we have ever seen.

The UBP for all their failings at least had a back bench with some balls.
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Tryangle
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« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2008, 06:33:21 PM »

Hi, I'm a graduate of U.W.I., so don't hold it against me Smiley Anyway I don't quite know why Government isn't using funds to instead further enhance the offerings at Bermuda College, but I can say with confidence that as a university system, U.W.I. does indeed offer quality education in a wide variety of subjects, all of which have use in Bermuda. Not just your standard accountancy/economics/law, but things like agriculture, meteorology, languages, natural sciences, engineering, history, and others.

I don't have a comparison chart of the costs of a university education in U.W.I. versus your standard 4-year college in the U.S. or Canada but would expect it to be significantly less. If U.W.I. is then promoted as a solid alternative to a stateside education, maybe parents and students will get to see the benefits themselves.
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SmokingGun
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« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2008, 07:35:50 PM »

Tryangle - glad to hear you had a good experience with UWI and speak highly of it. I have little doubt that the school offers some very good programs however there are some things that one just cannot expect to study when dealing with university in such a tropical clime. Using an extreme, if one wants to study and be athletically involved in winter sports you won't be picking Jamaica. No matter how hard the Bob Sleigh Team tries to convince you.

I just think people shold have access to an equal set fund to be spent as they see fit. Whether it be at UWI or elsewhere.

As to your point about Bermuda College - I'm aware that these guys had some excellent opportunities presented to them and they completely dropped the ball. Actually they did much worse than that. I see UWI as just another lazy cop out presented when the whole world's imploding on them to garner some sort of feel-good PR using foreign consultants to do the job. Totally not thought through if the program entails something similar to the Excess Hurricane Fund the government just paid into. Not knocking UWI as this might work well for other Carribean Islands less well off than Bermuda - just my thoughts.
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Blankman
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« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2008, 07:59:28 PM »

Well, in the U.S. and Canada, Bermudian students pay an international student fee. Where do you think this fee goes? It goes to subsidise students from the U.S. and Canada.

Wrong.  It's actually the reverse.  Using Canada as an example, tuitions for Canadian students are subisidized - as long as the student is Canadian the student actually pays a relatively small percentage of the cost of their education.  The rest is paid for by the taxpayer.  The presumption is that the student, or their parents, have paid taxes for years and the majority of Canadians will stay in Canada and contribute to the system as well.  Because foreign students haven't/won't contribute via taxes they are required to pay the full freight.

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Are you saying it is ok for our students to subsidise U.S. and Canadian students but not Caribbean students?

First, as I already pointed out, Bermudians who go to school in Canada for example do not subsidize Canadians.  And as someone else pointed out, even if it they did, there is a very big difference between individuals choosing to do so and a government choosing to do so.
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« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2008, 08:32:41 PM »

I have a number of family members and friends that have studied and received degrees from accredited universities in the West Indies - some of whome are some quite prominent figures in the community and would promptly inform you that the standard of education is quite high.

In a perfect world it'd be great for every Bermudian graduate to get a scholarship to the university of their choice however have insufficient data at hand (ie, the number of HS graduates from last year) to crunch the numbers.

But, as a first step I think it's great that more options are being made to our students to get subsidized education - be it the UK or the Caribbean. Not perfect, but may be beneficial to those who are more inclined to head further south for post-grad education.
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Cowpolly
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« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2008, 05:30:03 AM »

People need to be VERY careful about which university they attend if they want their degree to actually mean anything. 

While the Bda. Dept. of Education may hire individuals with mail order degrees, don't expect to land a job in the real world with such a piece of paper.
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