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August 01, 2010, 12:25:41 AM

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87407 Posts in 5227 Topics by 1160 Members Latest Member: - juan tamad Most online today: 41 - most online ever: 104 (July 16, 2010, 08:57:23 PM)

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Author Topic: West Indies University Subsidy  (Read 12527 times)
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ace
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« Reply #135 on: July 11, 2008, 12:46:41 AM »

I believe what I belive from personal experience with a family member, as stated.  The only medical advice I will ever take from this person would be what kind of asprin I should take.

As to this:  "Please do some research before you speak, legal work does not always mean insurance, reinsurance or investment work, it is much broader than that.  Come on Ace, I had you pegged as being better than that."

I should introduce you to one of the advisors I work with.  He is a lawyer by trade but one of the best accountants I know.  He works in the rock & roll business.  Nothing to do with insurance or anything you are assuming ....and he'd have a pile of choice words for you about Carribean lawyers.  He just sent one local Bermudian lawyer an email that made my nose hair curl, basically telling him to go back to law school.

I'm dealing with reality here...yet you keep talking about perceptions.

Now, I'm leaving the office now for home.   It is almost 2.00am

Nighty night.
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Cowpolly
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« Reply #136 on: July 11, 2008, 06:39:15 AM »

I wonder if I'm related to Ace?  I too, had a family member who thought they wanted to study medicine but they couldn't get accepted anywhere in North America or the UK so they looked at the West Indies.  (I thought it was Grenada but I'm not sure.  It was a long time ago).  The entry qualifications seemed to consist mostly of a cheque book.

Like it or not, there's a certain demographic that, rather than work hard,  always looks for the handouts or the easy way.  Instead of working to raise their efforts to meet the standards, they prefer to lower the standards to their level of effort.  That produces the likes of "Dr. Abdullah Ahad" and the Bda College. 
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These people will still find a job somewhere.  The Dept. of Education hires a few of them. 

They'll never work for me.
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sandgrownan
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« Reply #137 on: July 11, 2008, 07:58:46 AM »

Meanwhile, back in Bermuda, the hapless Horton is shouted down by parents over his plans for Whitney.

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Guilden
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« Reply #138 on: July 11, 2008, 08:34:00 AM »

Ace,

You are basing your perception of UWI on ONE family member who may not have even attended UWI. How is this reality?

You stated that you had many clients who begged to differer about Caribbean lawyers being of quality, yet now you mention ONE client who writes a nasty letter to a Bermuda lawyer and has some choice words for Caribbean lawyers. So because this client is a lawyer by trade means that his telling another lawyer he needs to go back to school makes his statement sound? I can understand you respecting someone but this is going a little overboard.

Firstly, seeing as you hold this person in such high esteem, does his recent letter indicate that Bermudian lawyers are not quality as well? Secondly, surely you jest, there are thousands of lawyers in the Caribbean and you are basing your decision on the quality of these lawyers based ONE client who may have encountered less than a handful of these Caribbean lawyers.

Even if you have clients who have encountered a number of Caribbean lawyers and were not happy does not reflect on the overall quality unless you are going to apply the same standard of quality to Bermudian lawyers and in fact lawyers the world.

Finally, who is to say that this client of yours was dealing with a Caribbean attorney who attended UWI.

So contrary to what you may believe you are only presenting perceptions, not reality.

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« Reply #139 on: July 11, 2008, 09:25:02 AM »



From a legal perspective, take a look at where many of the top attorneys who have practice in Bermuda are from. People like the late Richard Hector QC (?), Archie Warner, etc. I will conceed that they may not all have gone to UWI.

There are many Privy Councilors from the Caribbean,, one of them is Hon. Perry Christie the immediate former Prime Minister of the Bahamas. Additionally, there is only one place outside of the U.K. where the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council has set and that is right here in the Bahamas in December 2006. If that is not a sign of respect for the legal profession in the Bahamas than I do not know what is. Not even the GREAT Bermuda market has been able to secure such an event.

Additionally take a look at the number of QCs that hail from the Caribbean.

I told you above just because it is Caribbean and not Bermudian does not mean it is inferior, but that is not surprising based on what many in Bermuda would have you believe what the Caribbean is.

Please do some research before you speak, legal work does not always mean insurance, reinsurance or investment work, it is much broader than that.  Come on Ace, I had you pegged as being better than that.

Actually I chose Acadia. When I was at Bermuda College I had never realy heard of UWI.
[/quote]

Guilden,

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not there are brilliant minds and talents that originate from the Caribbean.  I think it is more of the freedom of choice where there scholarship monies should be spent.  If they want to go to a Canadian/US/UK University and qualify a Government sholarship will they be forced to give it up because of they don't want to go to UWI?  The relationship between Canadian Universities and Bermudian graduates has been a long and fruitful one.  As a 26 year old I have seen many of my Bermudian peers succeed due to the training and eduaction received from these Universities.

PS: I did some research on the aforementioned Perry Christie and it appears that he is actually a graduate of teh University of Birmingham.  Sorry, but really don't see how that supports your argument of the credentials of UWI.   
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Guilden
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« Reply #140 on: July 11, 2008, 09:53:34 AM »

bdafresh,

The point I was referencing was that Ace and many others in Bermuda seem to want to make the case that anything from the Caribbean is of a lesser quality than Bermuda or eslewhere. The reason I mentioned Perry Christie was simply to give an example of success from the Caribbean, it was not a specific reference to UWI.
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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
ace
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« Reply #141 on: July 11, 2008, 10:16:16 AM »

Guliden,

I merely gave you one example that sprang to mind because the email was only a few days old.  Also, this guy to whom I refer now lives in the Carribean himself and his general impression of the lawyers there...and yes, many in Bermuda too, is that they are useless.

I have many other examples, but frankly I'm not going to waste time spelling out each and every one.  It would be pointless.  Just like Christian slogans on people's cars, you will defend against any perceived *threat* ad naeusum and we will be going around and around....again.

I do like the way you make a sweeping generalisation to back up your argument that I am making a sweeping generalisation though...really builds your case.

Smiley



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« Reply #142 on: July 11, 2008, 10:22:31 AM »

Actually Guilden I think you are trying to spin it and put words in people's mouths. I cannot recall seeing "Ace and many others in Bermuda seem to want to make the case that anything from the Caribbean is of a lesser quality than Bermuda or eslewhere."

I have seen plenty of people comparing what a degree from UWI might compare to other institutions in the real world.

Here's an example:

The BDOT has just fired everyone. The new company taking over needs sales-people with experience and a business degree.

Two people apply: One born in Michigan but with a business degree from Harvard University. Another born in Bermuda with a degree from UWI. Who has the better shot at getting the interview?

Next week the CEO from the company get's hit by a bus. They need a new CEO to handle the whole company's needs.

Two people apply: One born in Michigan but with a business degree from Harvard University. Another born in Bermuda with a degree from UWI. Who has the better shot at getting the interview?


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ace
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« Reply #143 on: July 11, 2008, 10:34:56 AM »

Before I tick off all my lawyer friends in Bermuda, I should point out that this is my client's perception, not mine.

His definition of *useless* is pretty broad.  In this particular case it wasn't that the documents produced weren't accurate or well prepared, it was that it took far too long and the fee was far too high.

Not having a document when it is urgently required, no matter how brilliant it may end up to be, is useless (for example).
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Guilden
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« Reply #144 on: July 11, 2008, 10:43:04 AM »

Ace,

How many Caribbean attorneys has this client dealt with? The Caribbean is made up of many countries and there are thousands of attorneys.

But going directly back to UWI, you are basing your view of UWI on a relative who attended a medical school in the Caribbean and it may not have been UWI. How can you make an assessment of UWI on that basis?

Smokes,

How do you know who will and will not get the interviews? Maybe the UWI graduates have a vast amount of experience. So is it me or you who is trying to spin?

Has anyone really determined how the Bermuda market views a degree from UWI or are you simply making assumptions based on some preconceived idea that UWI is not a credible institution? I believe it was you who asked how a white Bermudian would feel attending UWI. Care to explain what you mean by that?

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« Reply #145 on: July 11, 2008, 10:50:37 AM »

 I would have no problem attending the University Of White Idiots............. Slap

 You guys get too serious. Thas why I stayed away from this thread. It's all relative and does come out in the 'wash'.

Gotta run....The UWI wants a sample of my brain. The electrodes are similar and off by .5 of that of Albert Frankenstien.....

 Tongue
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sandgrownan
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« Reply #146 on: July 11, 2008, 10:56:42 AM »

Guilden - I don't think anyone has said that UWI isn't a credible institution, but as Loki pointed out, it doesn't matter. Rightly or wrongly, educational institutions have a "rank".

Secondly, seeing as this decsion makes little sense in the sense that it doesn't go far enough, one has to wonder about the motivation behind "selecting" the UWI. Has the money already been spent? Why? What was promised? How many Bermudians will head down there given the universities of choice are in Canada and the US? Is EB getting a kickback? Is there a race element, is EB trying to discourage white students? Why is Randy scurrying back to the ministry with his tail between his legs? Is this just smoke and mirrors given that we can't produce neough university grade school leavers? If the entrance qualifications are lower, is the output lower? Are we lowering standards for our students just to be bale to say we have more going to university? It's manipulation of peoples lives for politcal advantage.

Guilden, don't be too defensive about the UWI. The question is really a larger question about education in Bermuda and hte absolute failure of the PLP to do anything about it.
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« Reply #147 on: July 11, 2008, 11:08:32 AM »

As I queried before is it right that the Govenment can issue scholarships but with a clause that the student must attend a certain insitution?  

What happens if the individual is of the lower class in Bermuda and has displayed their intellectual abilities enough to be granted a scholarship from the BDA Govt, but decides that another insitution in another jurisdiction best suits the educational field they are looking to pursue?  

Is their scholarship going to be revoked because they don't see the UWI fit (for whatever reason) for their specific educational interests?  So then is this individual denied the chance to further their education due to the fact that they don't see the Government sponsored/mandated institution as being in their best interests, as well as their families financial state, in the field of study, and thus lost through the "cracks."

Why are we (taxpayers) being forced to donate money to another jurisdiction for the betterment of their education system when ours remains in shambles?  This is especially concerning since there is no guarantee that there will be a return on this so called investment.  But hey our dollars just sponsored inncer city youths in LA through a Poker tournament, when there are Bermudians continuing to live inpoverty in their own country.

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Guilden
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« Reply #148 on: July 11, 2008, 11:09:08 AM »

Sand,

Now I can say that I am in agreement with you. I guess I get a little defensive about the attitude many in Bermuda have about the Caribbean, let's face it, many in Bermuda have an elitist attitude thinking that Caribbean means inferior, especially inferior to anything Bermudian.

I have to take the position I take on this because my son was born and is being raised in the Bahamas and I do not ever want him to think that he is inferior to anyone. He sees what the capabilities are and I never want him to second guess his worth, especially as many in Bermuda determine his worth based on what they have been told, not what they know, about the Caribbean.
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« Reply #149 on: July 11, 2008, 11:09:56 AM »

sand, and as CO pointed out, UWI ranks higher than some canadian colleges...
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