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August 01, 2010, 12:52:05 AM

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87408 Posts in 5228 Topics by 1160 Members Latest Member: - juan tamad Most online today: 49 - most online ever: 104 (July 16, 2010, 08:57:23 PM)

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Author Topic: West Indies University Subsidy  (Read 12529 times)
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drew
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« Reply #180 on: July 11, 2008, 12:25:33 PM »

Quote
Are you saying that al those Bermudians who attended and graduated from St. Mary's did so because the school was easy to get into and the curriculum was easy to complete? I think you need to talk to some St. Mary's graduates.

All I know is that for people entering St. Mary's in the last 5 years entry has been very easy. However, I don't know many people older than me so cannot comment on entry standards before then. The people I know that have gone there recently (and knowing the work they did (or didn't) do in high school) confirms what I'm trying to tell you... I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings – I'm just telling it like I see it.
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Bermuda Rasta
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« Reply #181 on: July 11, 2008, 12:26:15 PM »

With regard to this list, what criteria was used to determine ranking? For example, as I stated earlier, Maclean's an entity that ranks Canadian schools has Acadia as No. 1 but on this ranking Acadia is way behind U of T. When I was at Acadia, Macleans had Acadia No. 2, from a business school perspective, behind the Univeristy of Western.
..

GG:

1. Read the criteria for the Maclean's list.  It essentially excludes universities with graduate programs, so the whole list is second and third tier schools (with all due respect).  Check the list for medical schools and you'll see the top tier schools in Canada.

2.  "Subsidies".  Spin seems to have given up, but let me take one last kick at the can.  A Canadian university receives the same revenue from each of its students regardless of origin.  It just so happens that the revenue from Canadian students comes from two sources - personal funds and tax funds.  Nobody subsidizes anyone.  Your argument is merely about scale (or lack thereof).  I would proffer that an absence of international students would be replaced by more domestic attendees in order to maintain scale.
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SmokingGun
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« Reply #182 on: July 11, 2008, 12:27:53 PM »

*(Yes I know the funds are finite, I simply mean that you are making the assumptions that there isn't enough money - when there quite very well could be.)

LOL - caught yourself. OK - so who can we ask? Larry "Toss me in the tank" Dennis?
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sandgrownan
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« Reply #183 on: July 11, 2008, 12:32:42 PM »

Alsys - I don't find this funny at all. I find the actions of an incompetant government making rash decisions with little thought to the consequences or benefits highly offenvie. I find playing politics with our kids future disgusting.

So we have infinite funds to spend on education? So why isn't Whitney fixed? It's because funds are finite.

We could have a larger discusison about criteria for receiving scholarships and bursuries but really that could be a job for the civil servants. Why force those of lower incomes to a particular institution? Unless there's another agenda.
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alsys
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« Reply #184 on: July 11, 2008, 12:33:00 PM »

Yeah  Embarrassed I so need to re-read before pressing post!

I don't know. I know a lot of the private scholarships/bursaries go un-used each year. Unfortunately due to government protocol, we probably would not be able to get that information. I don't know if sand is wrong per se but making the assumptions that he/she is seems silly to me. Getting all het up over something you think might be is really not the best way keeping down your blood pressure.
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« Reply #185 on: July 11, 2008, 12:36:01 PM »

Smokes,

I take your point about the lack of trust but does that mean you are going to question each and every decision this goverment makes until such time as it is removed from office? If you want to stress yourself out doing so, be my guest. I still believe each decision has to be taken at its own merit. You and others, however, choose to look for the negative in any and everything the PLP Government does. The fact that Bermuda has just come through a General Election means you have an awful long time to fuss and complain, better make sure you stay in shape.

"Without skipping a beat any and all eligibale students could be given an individual scholarship to attend UWI..." I do not see where scholarships will be issued based on students going to UWI, please show me how you come to this conclusion. From what I have read Goverment has increased the total allocation for scholarships.

Even with the existence of scholarships, not every student will get a scholarship, therefore, I think it is prudent that the Government provide a solution for a lower cost university education, which means that even those in the lower income brackets can hope to send their kids off to university. That has to be a positive.

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alsys
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« Reply #186 on: July 11, 2008, 12:37:38 PM »

We could have a larger discusison about criteria for receiving scholarships and bursuries but really that could be a job for the civil servants. Why force those of lower incomes to a particular institution? Unless there's another agenda.

sand, man, come on. Just because a student might go to a school that has been "discounted" does not make them lower income. Just because you get a scholarship doesn't make you lower income either. Christ, around about the time I went to college, Dr. Snaith's son got the Butterfield scholarship for $20G a year! Again with the assumptions... this caribbean prejudice of yours (and others, myself included) is really starting to annoy me.

The only place where race and low income is mentioned is on here.
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sandgrownan
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« Reply #187 on: July 11, 2008, 12:43:30 PM »

"Even with the existence of scholarships, not every student will get a scholarship, therefore, I think it is prudent that the Government provide a solution for a lower cost university education, which means that even those in the lower income brackets can hope to send their kids off to university. That has to be a positive."

Guilden, true. But why do some scholarships go unawarded and why should lower income students be forced to UWI. That's the question. Should the criteria for scholarships be widened?

Alsys - duh, now I re-read your post. OK, so maybe there is enough money, i assumed given that we can't mainitna schools there wasn't? The question still remains, why restrict those of lower incomes to UWI?

And what is the hidden agenda? Because, you know with this gumnt there is one.
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« Reply #188 on: July 11, 2008, 12:43:43 PM »

With regard to this list, what criteria was used to determine ranking? For example, as I stated earlier, Maclean's an entity that ranks Canadian schools has Acadia as No. 1 but on this ranking Acadia is way behind U of T. When I was at Acadia, Macleans had Acadia No. 2, from a business school perspective, behind the Univeristy of Western.
..

GG:

1. Read the criteria for the Maclean's list.  It essentially excludes universities with graduate programs, so the whole list is second and third tier schools (with all due respect).  Check the list for medical schools and you'll see the top tier schools in Canada.

2.  "Subsidies".  Spin seems to have given up, but let me take one last kick at the can.  A Canadian university receives the same revenue from each of its students regardless of origin.  It just so happens that the revenue from Canadian students comes from two sources - personal funds and tax funds.  Nobody subsidizes anyone.  Your argument is merely about scale (or lack thereof).  I would proffer that an absence of international students would be replaced by more domestic attendees in order to maintain scale.

Rasta,

I was referring specifically to the undergrad listing. As I mentioned, when I was at Acadia it was ranked as the No. 2 business school in Canada, this was a specific programme ranking not a broad-based ranking on the entire university.

As far as your second point, if your comments are correct than I see the point being made. Thanks for clearing that up and based on the accuracy I conceed the point.
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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
sandgrownan
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« Reply #189 on: July 11, 2008, 12:48:05 PM »


"Just because a student might go to a school that has been "discounted" does not make them lower income. Just because you get a scholarship doesn't make you lower income either. Christ, around about the time I went to college, Dr. Snaith's son got the Butterfield scholarship for $20G a year! Again with the assumptions... this caribbean prejudice of yours (and others, myself included) is really starting to annoy me."

No-one is saying that but Alsys - hang on, isn't the point of this UWI "buy in" is to provide lower cost university education for low income students? I don't have an issue with that, I have an issue with it being restircted to UWI AND I don't know if we pay up front, how many students will go etc etc. what the cost is, why not give hte student scholarships on a case by case basis when they attend?
It's an arse about face way of approaching a real problem.
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« Reply #190 on: July 11, 2008, 12:51:34 PM »

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Guilden, true. But why do some scholarships go unawarded and why should lower income students be forced to UWI. That's the question. Should the criteria for scholarships be widened? There are many scholarships that go unawarded, are you implying that even if the candidates do not have the grades to support the awarding of a scholarship it should still be awarded? Becareful what you ask for. Nobody is being forced to go to UWI, how do you come to this conclusion? The fact that UWI tuition may be substantially lower mean that many people who cannot now afford to send their kids off to university and the kids have not received scholarships means there is now an option. Where is the forcing you KEEP referring to?

Alsys - duh, now I re-read your post. OK, so maybe there is enough money, i assumed given that we can't mainitna schools there wasn't? The question still remains, why restrict those of lower incomes to UWI? How in the world are they being restricted? Where have you read that there will be restrictions liek this?

And what is the hidden agenda? Because, you know with this gumnt there is one.No, because of your lack of trust you believe there is a hidden agenda. That is a personal issue.

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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
Bermuda Rasta
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« Reply #191 on: July 11, 2008, 12:52:52 PM »

"As I mentioned, when I was at Acadia it was ranked as the No. 2 business school in Canada"

....which surprises me.  Generally, anyone attending a university west of Quebec City would be loathe to acknowledge a Maritime university as a peer  Wink
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« Reply #192 on: July 11, 2008, 12:54:16 PM »


"Just because a student might go to a school that has been "discounted" does not make them lower income. Just because you get a scholarship doesn't make you lower income either. Christ, around about the time I went to college, Dr. Snaith's son got the Butterfield scholarship for $20G a year! Again with the assumptions... this caribbean prejudice of yours (and others, myself included) is really starting to annoy me."

No-one is saying that but Alsys - hang on, isn't the point of this UWI "buy in" is to provide lower cost university education for low income students? Where did you get that this is only for lower income studnets, it is a lower cost option which is open to everyone despite their economic situation? Why do you equate lower cost tuition to lower income brackets? I don't have an issue with that, I have an issue with it being restircted to UWI AND I don't know if we pay up front, how many students will go etc etc. what the cost is, why not give hte student scholarships on a case by case basis when they attend?
It's an arse about face way of approaching a real problem.

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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
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« Reply #193 on: July 11, 2008, 12:55:05 PM »

"As I mentioned, when I was at Acadia it was ranked as the No. 2 business school in Canada"

....which surprises me.  Generally, anyone attending a university west of Quebec City would be loathe to acknowledge a Maritime university as a peer  Wink

Well, I guess you gotta deal with that one :-)
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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
Canuck In Bermuda
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« Reply #194 on: July 11, 2008, 01:03:59 PM »



Canuck,

Is St. Mary's not considered a good school? I think you will find a large number of senior accounting professionals in Bermuda graduated from St. Mary's.

They have a good football team. 

Yeah, good one. Maclean's ranks St. Mary's at No. 11. What school did you attend?

One that beats St. Mary's... far and away #1 in Canada for what I was up to at the time.  Sorry but I'll have to keep the to myself for now Smiley   never know where Ms Furbert or someone like-minded may be lurking!   wacko

Anyway, just having a bit of fun   Tongue
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