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December 05, 2008, 05:32:06 AM

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74202 Posts in 4024 Topics by 844 Members Latest Member: - marty boi Most online today: 16 - most online ever: 66 (June 14, 2007, 11:37:46 AM)

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Author Topic: Institutional Racism  (Read 6489 times)
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bdafresh
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« Reply #255 on: August 27, 2008, 01:44:07 PM »

Tigga,

Yeah no doubt that it works both ways...it doesn't happen in the same context though (i.e. being robbed).  Most white boys grow up here scared of their black counterparts, due to them expressing their feelings (mostly hatred) towards them in an open and sometimes violent manner at a much younger age and because they are simply outnumbered.  

You can argue that as white Bermudians get older and climb up the "corporate ladder" they can turn around and take so called "revenge" by denying the black bermudian (whether he did the robbing or not) from attaining a job or being able to progress through one.  At the same time, through numerous statistical analysis it shows that Bermudians (black or white) are not running the major business of thsi country, it is the foreigners with all the power.  

It is hard to say how to prevent it from just becoming a never ending circle of hate.  My best bet is to say this older generation (black and white), who experienced and enforced segregation has to die off (for lack of a better term), in order to stop this hate from being passed down from generation to generation.  But unfortunately, reading sites like this, the LtoE, political ploys and the modern day segregation (i.e. your county experience) it almost seems like a pipe dream. Not to say that it doesn't happen (intermingling) it just isn't happening on a large scale.

How do we change it?
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Guilden
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« Reply #256 on: August 27, 2008, 01:45:57 PM »

Not to muddy the waters here but what about this titbit from a couple of months ago?

http://www.bermudanetworknews.com/index.php/news/detail/african_accountants_face_salary_discrimination/

I would be very interested in Falcon's comments on this. Why are the Africans paid less? Does it have to do with work ethic, attitude, appearance, personality, ability, way of thought? What is the reason? Is it justified?

Guilden, it's much simpler than that.  They come from someplace where accountants are paid very little by Bermudian standards.  When the US dollar was strong relative to the Canadian dollar firms were hiring Canadians because, simply put, they were cheap.  It was much less expensive than hiring people from elsewhere.  Now the Canadian dollar is strong so the accounting firms are looking farther afield for cheap labour.  It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with economics.

And yes it's justified.  Like it or not, you're worth what you negotiate.

So be extension, you have no issue with the sweat labour used by countries like China in the prodcution of goods. If a thread were begun on this topic I can assume you would state that you have no issues with it because the labour is only worth what it negotiates.

I have no concerns with "you're worth what you negotiate" but in order to properly negotiate you should be provided with all the variables, cost of living, what the typical salary for the position is within the market, etc. If this information is being supplied than fine the negotiations are fair.
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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
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« Reply #257 on: August 27, 2008, 01:47:59 PM »

Overlapping thoughts. Yah see...even Rummies have an idea of whats going on.

Better leave it at that...thas another thread rite?

Gotta run.........squirrels in dee garden hahgain....eating my suppar..........detz hallrite...cupal of shut gahun blasts hin dee hair and the corn will be full of lead and China will have no qualms........

 Wink
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Guilden
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« Reply #258 on: August 27, 2008, 01:51:23 PM »

I think tigga's point is that he's not hearing the admission that the reverse still happens.

Mayhaps Elvis ... but there are still places in Bermuda a white person cannot/should not go whereas the reverse does not still happen.

Darkside,

Any do you care to name one or two of these places? If a white Bermudians feel uncomfortable going to these places than that is his problem, if he is being threatened, real, not perceived, than he ought to report it to the police because there is no public place in Bermuda that some should not be able to go.

If he i uncomfortable than he ought to understand that when integration occurs, he who does the integration will be made to feel uncomfortable. Think about the first black student that attended Whitney, think that student felt comfortable? Change is not always comfortable.

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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
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« Reply #259 on: August 27, 2008, 01:53:59 PM »

Don't even have to read all your words Guilden but I get your point. China is a Communist Country, where by relative compensation $1 an hour would feed them for a week. Thats another commercial. A dollar in China is like $40 or more an hour elsewhere. I am sure I am wrong with that but it even may even be $100 an hour. Economics and structure play a major role and your more informed on that than most.

Thats why most American, Canadian, European, African bussinesses invest there and detz hall shee rote......................

I need a rum................................... Kiss too all..................
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« Reply #260 on: August 27, 2008, 01:55:02 PM »

Blankman

I was going to answer but you did it for me
 Smiley

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Darkside
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« Reply #261 on: August 27, 2008, 01:58:10 PM »

Not to muddy the waters here but what about this titbit from a couple of months ago?

http://www.bermudanetworknews.com/index.php/news/detail/african_accountants_face_salary_discrimination/

I would be very interested in Falcon's comments on this. Why are the Africans paid less? Does it have to do with work ethic, attitude, appearance, personality, ability, way of thought? What is the reason? Is it justified?

Guilden, it's much simpler than that.  They come from someplace where accountants are paid very little by Bermudian standards.  When the US dollar was strong relative to the Canadian dollar firms were hiring Canadians because, simply put, they were cheap.  It was much less expensive than hiring people from elsewhere.  Now the Canadian dollar is strong so the accounting firms are looking farther afield for cheap labour.  It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with economics.

And yes it's justified.  Like it or not, you're worth what you negotiate.

So be extension, you have no issue with the sweat labour used by countries like China in the prodcution of goods. If a thread were begun on this topic I can assume you would state that you have no issues with it because the labour is only worth what it negotiates.

I have no concerns with "you're worth what you negotiate" but in order to properly negotiate you should be provided with all the variables, cost of living, what the typical salary for the position is within the market, etc. If this information is being supplied than fine the negotiations are fair.

So Guilden its not about "work ethic, attitude, appearance, personality, ability, way of thought" its simply economics ... you appear to have made Blankman's point.

... and .. err ... Gilden ... you're kidding me right? ... I can go anywhere ... others cannot ... [irony starts] and yeah we have a real report it to the police mentality here in Bermuda [irony over]
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« Reply #262 on: August 27, 2008, 02:03:43 PM »

WHITNEY........ Slap Slap Doze were the best years of my life. And yes I am sure that the first Black had a hard tyme. They did'ny get it from me or others.

The Woolridges, Smiths, Furberts et al were given a hard time, at points in time. Imagine what it was like to be a GEE...................................hell, those days and even today we were'nt Black or White.....just freeking potaytoe pickers.............and tree trimmerz....

I have moved on and learned from those days and many others have. Oh the glory of having spent so much time there. What an asset to peace of mind.

Everything is black and white in this day.........what happened and what is happening is the colours of the rainbow can only be seen by those that have site.......(damn...gutta keep that with my publisher)

Ok...um gone........... Kiss
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« Reply #263 on: August 27, 2008, 02:05:12 PM »

Not to muddy the waters here but what about this titbit from a couple of months ago?

http://www.bermudanetworknews.com/index.php/news/detail/african_accountants_face_salary_discrimination/

I would be very interested in Falcon's comments on this. Why are the Africans paid less? Does it have to do with work ethic, attitude, appearance, personality, ability, way of thought? What is the reason? Is it justified?

Guilden, it's much simpler than that.  They come from someplace where accountants are paid very little by Bermudian standards.  When the US dollar was strong relative to the Canadian dollar firms were hiring Canadians because, simply put, they were cheap.  It was much less expensive than hiring people from elsewhere.  Now the Canadian dollar is strong so the accounting firms are looking farther afield for cheap labour.  It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with economics.

And yes it's justified.  Like it or not, you're worth what you negotiate.

So be extension, you have no issue with the sweat labour used by countries like China in the prodcution of goods. If a thread were begun on this topic I can assume you would state that you have no issues with it because the labour is only worth what it negotiates.

I have no concerns with "you're worth what you negotiate" but in order to properly negotiate you should be provided with all the variables, cost of living, what the typical salary for the position is within the market, etc. If this information is being supplied than fine the negotiations are fair.

So Guilden its not about "work ethic, attitude, appearance, personality, ability, way of thought" its simply economics ... you appear to have made Blankman's point.

... and .. err ... Gilden ... you're kidding me right? ... I can go anywhere ... others cannot ... [irony starts] and yeah we have a real report it to the police mentality here in Bermuda [irony over]

Darkside,

What are you talking about? I was asking if the salaries being paid to the African accountats has anything to do with those varibables. How am I making Blankman's point?

Well, hey, if you really want to go somewhere and feel threatened why would you not report it to the police, wat does the mentality have to do with it. You are either prepared to try to solve the problem or your allowing it to continue only supports the problem.
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« Reply #264 on: August 27, 2008, 02:07:16 PM »

Not to muddy the waters here but what about this titbit from a couple of months ago?

http://www.bermudanetworknews.com/index.php/news/detail/african_accountants_face_salary_discrimination/

I would be very interested in Falcon's comments on this. Why are the Africans paid less? Does it have to do with work ethic, attitude, appearance, personality, ability, way of thought? What is the reason? Is it justified?

I remember this from a few months ago, and the thread that resulted. This is actually faux news on BNN and not actually true. I can tell from first hand experience, knowledge backed up by significant anecdotal information that this article is erroneous, in short, it's not true.
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« Reply #265 on: August 27, 2008, 02:13:52 PM »

Guilden ... the African accountants should have asked the questions in their negotiations ... you raising sweat shops in China goes to show its only economics ...

... and unfortunately like in our past folk know all to well where they should not go ... and frankly they don't want to go there ... [irony] nor do they want to involve the police [irony end] ... and invading purely for the sake of intergrating in the face of being threatened is just "asking for it" don't you think?
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« Reply #266 on: August 27, 2008, 02:21:43 PM »

Guilden ... the African accountants should have asked the questions in their negotiations I agree but I also believe the employer has some duty of disclosure as well. Maybe that's why there is a high turnover of staff in accounting firms.... you raising sweat shops in China goes to show its only economics ... Is it not the same principle.

... and unfortunately like in our past folk know all to well where they should not go ... and frankly they don't want to go there ... [irony] nor do they want to involve the police [irony end] ... and invading purely for the sake of intergrating in the face of being threatened is just "asking for it" don't you think? So if no one is prepare to step forward and do something about because people know where they should not go, why raise it in your argument with Tigga? What was the point of raising it?
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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
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« Reply #267 on: August 27, 2008, 02:26:33 PM »

Guilden ... the African accountants should have asked the questions in their negotiations I agree but I also believe the employer has some duty of disclosure as well. Maybe that's why there is a high turnover of staff in accounting firms.... you raising sweat shops in China goes to show its only economics ... Is it not the same principle.


Irrelevant, since it's not true, it's a moot point and has sfa to do with race or institutional racism.
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Guilden
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« Reply #268 on: August 27, 2008, 02:37:19 PM »

Guilden ... the African accountants should have asked the questions in their negotiations I agree but I also believe the employer has some duty of disclosure as well. Maybe that's why there is a high turnover of staff in accounting firms.... you raising sweat shops in China goes to show its only economics ... Is it not the same principle.


Irrelevant, since it's not true, it's a moot point and has sfa to do with race or institutional racism.

Sand,

You need to direct this at Darkside, not me as after you posted that it was not true I left it alone. As you can see I only responded to a Darkside post.
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"With your hand on a hot stove,fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes. When you are with a pretty woman,fifteen minutes can seem like fifteen seconds. That's the theory of relativity." -- Albert Einstein
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« Reply #269 on: August 27, 2008, 02:55:21 PM »

Dropped.  No problem.
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“There are no facts, only interpretations.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
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