Guilden - I agree, as I stated before, if two candidats are doing the same job, they should be paid the same. That's my opinion, and why I mentioned the level bands. I think if we dug into it women would be the worst off of all of these analyses, comparing like with like

Sucks.

Guilden

Sorry to take so long to reply, been busy!

It sounds like you don't have a chip on your shoulder but rather a great big sack of potatoes.  You couldn't have further misinterpreted me if you tries, although I do suspect that you tried quite hard already 

I say again not all qualifications are equal, degrees vary from university to university and those from a better university are more valued.  Fair or not, it's the way of the world.

I did not even imply that whites are more valuable to a company, that was a real stretch.  Simply said all employees are not of equal values.  In fact, in the microcosm that is Bermuda, black employees are sought after and highly valued due to the work permit situation oftentimes leading to the unfortunate situation where the tag "Bermuda Tax" is applied to mean a black Bermudian who is employed not because he/she is wanted but purely yo keep the numbers up to make things easier with immigration.

By appearance I do partly mean manner of dress but also physical appearance affect salary, for example tall men earn more than short men for the same job and fat people earn less than thin people.

By way of thought I did not mean political persuasion at all, although in a place like Bermuda I am sure that it sometimes comes into play, both ways.  Not I meant more general attitude to life, positivity, keeping home problems at home, taking responsibility for oneself rather than looking to outside for excuses.

No I was not saying that there is a brain difference between races, jeez man. I was saying that that 2 candidates with equal qualifications may not have same brain power or suitability.  For example, some people are just better salespeople than others due to an innate skill with people.  Heavens, people 3 times in a sentence.

You have to be in total denial to say there is not a problem in attitude with many black Bermudians.  Arguing that you could do your job between 9 and 5 is totally irrelevant.  Yes there is a general stampede at the door at 5 but this does not mean that those people haven't done their jobs.  Where there is a problem is getting people to turn up on time , stay to the end of their working day, or even turn up at all, put in a decent amount of effort and work without a bad attitude.  The problem doesn't happen to the same degree with ex-pats as they are not so secure in their jobs, if they are rubbish you simply get rid of them or don't renew their contract.  Getting rid of a bad member of staff when they are a black Bermudian is very difficult.

Your comment about the sense of entitlement being less so in professionals I believe to be correct but it is still there.  I think that this leads to the habit of Bermudian to job hop early in their careers to get ever advancing salary.  This work very well in the beginning but when they start to apply for higher level jobs their resumes starts to indicate that they don't have a lot of staying power.   This will negatively impact on their income later in their career.

It also occurred to me last night that most of us have the habit of blaming external for failures, i didn't get the job because i was black, white, green, a one-armed lesbian in a wheelchair etc.  When we succeed we claim it is all by our own hand.  It is rare to hear someone admit that got the job because they were black, white, green, a one-armed lesbian in a wheelchair.

Guilden

No need for an apology.  I was just trying to point out that correlation doesn't equal cause.  Very badly.  It is a complex issue and needs complex study.


The problem as I see it is that the statistics we have  are not much use in this discussion because we are talking specifically about Bermuda and the sample group is very small and so results will be very easily skewed.  To compare salaries you have to look at like with like and these groups are small.  You can't just look at , for exqmple, accountants and say the average white accountant earns X and the average white accountant earns Y and compare the 2.  The BBC are running a very good course on why the statistic that we rely on so much are not as reliable as we all think. Bermuda's is an odd place when it come to the make up of it's work force and blunt basic statistics are not going to cut it. Add to this the fact that the census data is so old as to be irrelevant and we are not in a very clear situation at all.

I am not saying for one second that racism doesn't occur in the workplace, I am sure that it does and must be tackled on a case by case basis to keep improving the situation.  I think you also have to accept that it does happen both ways.  I think some of the disparity is a class thing also and I think social mobility in Bermuda also needs to be addressed.  I would say that the best tool to address this is education, making sure that ALL of Bermuda's children have the best education possible so that they can take advantage of the incredible opportunities that they have.  Being in a small place where there is over-employment in addition to a protectionist policy puts Bermudians (black and white) in a wonderfully string position but people need the skills and the mindset to take advantage.  The education system in Bermuda is shameful in a country so rich and no Bermudian should ever be in the position that it is too expensive to gain a university level education. 

It is also my belief that when you give people reasons to not achieve many of them will take them.  Expectations need to be high and telling people that they are going to be held back by their colour is not helpful.  Nor is telling them that they are owed by white people, why strive when you re owed it anyway. Yes, it will happen sometimes but it is not the norm.  Incidences of racism should be dealt with firmly and swiftly but please don't accept every cry of 'it's because I'm black' as the truth.  Quite often it's a defense mechanism to save us admitting to ourselves that , in this instance, we just didn't make the grade. (and yes, before you flip out again, it could equally be, 'it's because I'm white', 'it's because I'm a woman' etc etc etc.

I have to think about this one. Sounds radical too me. As to anyone dictating your success or failures, that has nothing to do with upbringing...........they still do it anyway, in any counrty and yes where you live.

As for mixed marriages, thanks for sharing that as it is quite common and has nothing to do with employment.

Gotta run....clean my beaters on the mixer.............

Hey Blanks!  You got any of this Niagara this fool is talking about?  Might be worth a try - I've been following the raw oyster theory, except I think it's flawed......yesterday, I ate a dozen but only nine worked.